“Unions, Bah, humbug!!!”~ I’m sure you’ll give up your pension for the less fortunate, ladyfingers86. I feel nothing but pity for someone who thinks “Unions, Bah, humbug!!!” Hey, are you one of those “Rethuglicans?”
ladyfingers86 - Ignore the “crabby” comments. I’m sure you aren’t any kind of “thug”. Unions were a necessary and valid response to conditions 100 years ago. Conditions have changed; unions haven’t. Featherbedding, firemen on diesel locomotives, and $50 per hour for operating an air wrench on an assembly line are just some of the union accomplishments.
I, too, believe that the unions are no longer needed here. They should go to China, Thailand, India to the countrys that sell things and perform services so cheaply they put Americans out of work. All because they have never had unions.
Does anyone really think that union faults are as bad as those of the corporate masters who have now purchased our entire political process AND sent our jobs overseas?
Union supporting Republican here. Not all unions are bad. I was laid off one time because I refused to put false/misleading info in a report. Next job was at a company where there was a professional union. I joined and excelled in my career with lots of rewarding and challenging projects.
Thank the real “working” people that gave you your cushy standard of living through forsight, hardwork and a willingness to stand up for workers rights.
You spout off about featherbedding…..seen any of recent CEOs, CFOs, C-Os doing ANYTHING to earn a living lately?
Most are rewarded for taking jobs out of the country and you suckers support that.
Nothing but paper pushers, IT jobs and service industry left. We no longer make anything of value, just more tax loopholes for those that don’t earn or need it.
Off my soapbox now. This country is starting to reap what it sowed in the name of “cheap’.
has a union ever put out a single product? has a union ever created a job that was productive?the truth is the unions of today try to convince the general publicthat those who provide us with jobs are corrupt because they believe they should make a better living than their employees. If you want the money, come up with the ideas, take the risks, and put in the work.then tell us how unfair it is that you make more money than your employees
I’ve been through many labor negotiations in my life. I’ve owned my own business and worked for others both union and non-union.
The first realisation is that one cannot make a living from a business that goes bankrupt. So, knowing that you try and be fair in your dealings.
If you think someone should not share in the growth as well as the downtimes then you need to adjust your outlook a bit. Nothing wrong with profit…it’s exploitation and greed that sucks, and that is all a matter of perception of whose ox is getting gored.
There are no guarantees for either side and one cannot survive without the other. Symbiosis, plain and simple.
When you dismiss a whole class of people with no regard as to why they do what they do then you are myopic.
If you feel so strongly about what organized labor has done then be ready to walk the walk and only collect what you, yourself have negotiated, not based upon “industry standards” that were derived at from others’ energies and efforts.
Health insurance, sick time, vacations, pensions (what’s left from breaking agreements).
These were not “given”. They were EARNED and sometimes fought for.
Those benefits you are so lucky to have without a union are directly due to the fact that the unions laid the groundwork long before you came along. Firms had to extend them to attract workers.
What has transpired lately is simply poor membership and indifference. Same as with voter apathy.
When we’ve lost it all then you folks may appreciate what you no longer have. In the meantime everyone will take the hit with a lower standard of living.
Ex……Shop by Malwart standards and you will be forced to live by them…..our economy is proving that daily. Dems./Repubs……doesn’t matter…we’re all in the same boat…some are just closer to the gunwales is all and more subject to the rough water. Sooner or later we will all sink or swim by what we choose.
Jaroca2
Yes unions laid the groundwork for what weall have today. But they have outlived their usefulness. You don’t see them making concessions to keep jobs here, do you? GM, because of its agreements with its various unuions is in a poor competitive position as a result. In the end it will hurt the employees and the union if they keep making demands rather than concessions.
You folks are a bit off by making the unions to be pro violent. History people!!! Remember reading anything about Henry Ford and his hired “police force”? How about the Pullman Strike? No violence there, huh? Mining and the Molly Maquires?
Ever work an assembly line? Experience that or working in a mine with no safety equitpment. When you’ve done that then comment. Otherwise be a litlle less accusatory. I once worked in a factory where stamping presses were used. They were fed by hand. Many had lost hands and arms because “owners & management” refused to allow safety straps to simply pull one’s arm out from the press as the head was compressed. We tried negotiating for that safety feature for FOUR years while injuries continued and claims were denied. Tell me about usefullness. When the bottom line is all they want the worker be damned. They can always “find someone else”. That may be you one day. Watch what you wish for.
Why is it when a group of workers get together your mindset is to accuse them of greed and laziness and yet when a group of business people form their “trade groups/associations” to lobby, advertise and control they are simply making good business decisions.?
Most times they are conspiring on ways of circumventing tax laws, safety codes and consumer protection.
Wall St., banking, investment groups ring any bells? Antitrust laws. They have their employees and customers best interests at heart. Yeah, sure.
Anyone reading this lost their pensions, had their benefits cut ? Savings taken and stolen through great business decisions? Been denied insurance coverage for you or family members because some bean counter didn’t like your numbers and his boss wanted another yacht? How are your portflios doing compared to 3 years ago? Housing values? It must be the union workers fault I’ll bet. bleeep them for asking for a living wage so they don’t have to work 2 or 3 jobs.
Think about it. The only way the working class has ever been able to move forward is by banding together.
Strange how you start the name calling and accusations and your assumptions about “thugs”.
Your line of ‘thinking’, using the term loosely, assumes that anyone not agreeing with you is hell bent on physical intimidation.
You don’t seem to accomodate other’s views. Almost like the cowardly Tea Partiers who got in the face of a cripled man. Real men, huh?
Town hall meetings? I saw more of mindless America shouting down any civil attempt at discourse, no matter who the speaker was.
Muscleheaded, goons, thugs? You are quick at the insulting labels online. How are you face to face.? Not much by your tone, I’m guessing. You sound like the type to denounce anything someone tries then are the first inline at the trough for the benefits after the hard work is done.
If someone doesn;t agree with you and your ilk, you shout them down. Your freedom of speech is paramount and others should take a back seat. I’ve dealt with your mouthy kind before and you don’t intimidate me.
At least we’re all TRYING here (albeit in a rather uncivilized manner) to tackle a subject that is unsolvable and always will be: Who decides how much is enough for whom? Society vs. the individual. The commons vs. private ownership. It’s a problem that has followed humanity for as long as we’ve been evolving and will never end. But as Churchill said, “Talk, talk, talk is better than war, war, war.”
I’m not religious, but if there are any Christians among us, remember Jesus’ teaching to the man who asked how he could achieve eternal life: Sell whatever you have and give to the poor. Sounds like a Socialist to me.
kreole about 14 years ago
I’m still trying to figure where elfs come from.
pouncingtiger about 14 years ago
A lot of people don’t have control over their blood alcohol content over Christmas.
GROG Premium Member about 14 years ago
Having a couple beers isn’t going to change things either. Times a wasting.
dolsonjr about 14 years ago
After a few more beers it won’t make any elfing difference
Yukoner about 14 years ago
Santa and Mrs Claus had three children. They are known as subordinate clauses.
Crabbyrino Premium Member about 14 years ago
“Unions, Bah, humbug!!!”~ I’m sure you’ll give up your pension for the less fortunate, ladyfingers86. I feel nothing but pity for someone who thinks “Unions, Bah, humbug!!!” Hey, are you one of those “Rethuglicans?”
Superfrog about 14 years ago
You can’t ave elf- control without elf-discipline.
dfowensby about 14 years ago
elf stimulation? elf abuse? elf immolation? now you have enough bad puns for the rest of the week.
Sandfan about 14 years ago
ladyfingers86 - Ignore the “crabby” comments. I’m sure you aren’t any kind of “thug”. Unions were a necessary and valid response to conditions 100 years ago. Conditions have changed; unions haven’t. Featherbedding, firemen on diesel locomotives, and $50 per hour for operating an air wrench on an assembly line are just some of the union accomplishments.
wicky about 14 years ago
Unions are now what employers were then.
ses1066 about 14 years ago
Move the workshop to Christmas Island and apply for free trade status.
Silverback271 about 14 years ago
Santa has been committing elfless acts of kindness for years, this year is no exception.
DesultoryPhillipic about 14 years ago
What percentage of the workforce is union? Get real.
magnamax about 14 years ago
I, too, believe that the unions are no longer needed here. They should go to China, Thailand, India to the countrys that sell things and perform services so cheaply they put Americans out of work. All because they have never had unions.
eepatte about 14 years ago
Does anyone really think that union faults are as bad as those of the corporate masters who have now purchased our entire political process AND sent our jobs overseas?
barbfrost about 14 years ago
Maybe the Keebler elves can help out.
JP Steve Premium Member about 14 years ago
Yes, go to China, Thailand and India and see the luxurious living conditions of the workers not cursed with unions!
wascherer about 14 years ago
Gremlins will work for 1/2 the price under the table
dahawk about 14 years ago
Union supporting Republican here. Not all unions are bad. I was laid off one time because I refused to put false/misleading info in a report. Next job was at a company where there was a professional union. I joined and excelled in my career with lots of rewarding and challenging projects.
Jaroca2 about 14 years ago
Hey Sandfan,
Thank the real “working” people that gave you your cushy standard of living through forsight, hardwork and a willingness to stand up for workers rights.
You spout off about featherbedding…..seen any of recent CEOs, CFOs, C-Os doing ANYTHING to earn a living lately?
Most are rewarded for taking jobs out of the country and you suckers support that.
Nothing but paper pushers, IT jobs and service industry left. We no longer make anything of value, just more tax loopholes for those that don’t earn or need it.
Off my soapbox now. This country is starting to reap what it sowed in the name of “cheap’.
ponytail56 about 14 years ago
has a union ever put out a single product? has a union ever created a job that was productive?the truth is the unions of today try to convince the general publicthat those who provide us with jobs are corrupt because they believe they should make a better living than their employees. If you want the money, come up with the ideas, take the risks, and put in the work.then tell us how unfair it is that you make more money than your employees
Jaroca2 about 14 years ago
I’ve been through many labor negotiations in my life. I’ve owned my own business and worked for others both union and non-union.
The first realisation is that one cannot make a living from a business that goes bankrupt. So, knowing that you try and be fair in your dealings.
If you think someone should not share in the growth as well as the downtimes then you need to adjust your outlook a bit. Nothing wrong with profit…it’s exploitation and greed that sucks, and that is all a matter of perception of whose ox is getting gored.
There are no guarantees for either side and one cannot survive without the other. Symbiosis, plain and simple.
When you dismiss a whole class of people with no regard as to why they do what they do then you are myopic.
If you feel so strongly about what organized labor has done then be ready to walk the walk and only collect what you, yourself have negotiated, not based upon “industry standards” that were derived at from others’ energies and efforts.
Health insurance, sick time, vacations, pensions (what’s left from breaking agreements).
These were not “given”. They were EARNED and sometimes fought for.
Jaroca2 about 14 years ago
Ladyfinger,
What is it you don’t understand?
Those benefits you are so lucky to have without a union are directly due to the fact that the unions laid the groundwork long before you came along. Firms had to extend them to attract workers.
What has transpired lately is simply poor membership and indifference. Same as with voter apathy.
When we’ve lost it all then you folks may appreciate what you no longer have. In the meantime everyone will take the hit with a lower standard of living.
Ex……Shop by Malwart standards and you will be forced to live by them…..our economy is proving that daily. Dems./Repubs……doesn’t matter…we’re all in the same boat…some are just closer to the gunwales is all and more subject to the rough water. Sooner or later we will all sink or swim by what we choose.
GROG Premium Member about 14 years ago
Jaroca2 Yes unions laid the groundwork for what weall have today. But they have outlived their usefulness. You don’t see them making concessions to keep jobs here, do you? GM, because of its agreements with its various unuions is in a poor competitive position as a result. In the end it will hurt the employees and the union if they keep making demands rather than concessions.
Jaroca2 about 14 years ago
Violence?
You folks are a bit off by making the unions to be pro violent. History people!!! Remember reading anything about Henry Ford and his hired “police force”? How about the Pullman Strike? No violence there, huh? Mining and the Molly Maquires?
Ever work an assembly line? Experience that or working in a mine with no safety equitpment. When you’ve done that then comment. Otherwise be a litlle less accusatory. I once worked in a factory where stamping presses were used. They were fed by hand. Many had lost hands and arms because “owners & management” refused to allow safety straps to simply pull one’s arm out from the press as the head was compressed. We tried negotiating for that safety feature for FOUR years while injuries continued and claims were denied. Tell me about usefullness. When the bottom line is all they want the worker be damned. They can always “find someone else”. That may be you one day. Watch what you wish for.
Why is it when a group of workers get together your mindset is to accuse them of greed and laziness and yet when a group of business people form their “trade groups/associations” to lobby, advertise and control they are simply making good business decisions.?
Most times they are conspiring on ways of circumventing tax laws, safety codes and consumer protection.
Wall St., banking, investment groups ring any bells? Antitrust laws. They have their employees and customers best interests at heart. Yeah, sure.
Anyone reading this lost their pensions, had their benefits cut ? Savings taken and stolen through great business decisions? Been denied insurance coverage for you or family members because some bean counter didn’t like your numbers and his boss wanted another yacht? How are your portflios doing compared to 3 years ago? Housing values? It must be the union workers fault I’ll bet. bleeep them for asking for a living wage so they don’t have to work 2 or 3 jobs.
Think about it. The only way the working class has ever been able to move forward is by banding together.
Jaroca2 almost 14 years ago
Strange how you start the name calling and accusations and your assumptions about “thugs”.
Your line of ‘thinking’, using the term loosely, assumes that anyone not agreeing with you is hell bent on physical intimidation.
You don’t seem to accomodate other’s views. Almost like the cowardly Tea Partiers who got in the face of a cripled man. Real men, huh?
Town hall meetings? I saw more of mindless America shouting down any civil attempt at discourse, no matter who the speaker was.
Muscleheaded, goons, thugs? You are quick at the insulting labels online. How are you face to face.? Not much by your tone, I’m guessing. You sound like the type to denounce anything someone tries then are the first inline at the trough for the benefits after the hard work is done.
If someone doesn;t agree with you and your ilk, you shout them down. Your freedom of speech is paramount and others should take a back seat. I’ve dealt with your mouthy kind before and you don’t intimidate me.
You are dismissed!
lmanningok almost 14 years ago
At least we’re all TRYING here (albeit in a rather uncivilized manner) to tackle a subject that is unsolvable and always will be: Who decides how much is enough for whom? Society vs. the individual. The commons vs. private ownership. It’s a problem that has followed humanity for as long as we’ve been evolving and will never end. But as Churchill said, “Talk, talk, talk is better than war, war, war.”
I’m not religious, but if there are any Christians among us, remember Jesus’ teaching to the man who asked how he could achieve eternal life: Sell whatever you have and give to the poor. Sounds like a Socialist to me.