If heaven went PC: Yes, I realize you worked hard and lead a good life... But it's all equal now. Everyone gets in. Some of your good deeds will go to offset this guys sins.
And it takes quite a bit of goodness on your part to offset the lingering affects of all his badness left behind in the world that exists after you are gone, so get busy.
AH, but the point is this – God is the judge, not we humans. It doesn’t matter what we think personally, It’s God’s decision. Heaven is not a democracy. It’s God’s kingdom.
Someone once said, “Because I believe in the Bible, I believe in Heaven and Hell. Because I believe in God’s infinite mercy, I believe that Hell is empty.”
I don’t believe in any of it, but if I did, that would be my sentiment too.
paullpIf God is full of infinite Mercy (which He is) and full of Justice (which He is), and He has given us a free will to choose between Him, who is Love, (which He has), then we should count on His being Merciful and Just. He can’t just be one or the other, only both. So, in His infinite Wisdom He has given you the opportunity to be a player in your quest to be with Him for eternity. If you do whatever you want thinking, "Ah, God’ll give me a pas in the end, then you are cheapening God’s love for you, and downgrading who God is. Not a great way to work with God in getting yourself into Heaven.God’s Mercy is greater than anyone’s sins, but the caveat is true remorse, true repentance. True repentance is NOT counting on God giving you a pass. And it is CERTAINLY not trying to make yourself believe He doesn’t exist so you don’t have to worry about.
Let me let in on a little secret that in the heart of hearts of ANY human being….they know, despite even a lifetime of denial and self deception that there IS a God. Oh, they’ll deny it and give you all the reasons in the world, but in the deepest recesses of EVERY human being (because this is how God made is – in His image) they know He is there, waiting, wanting them to come Home. Self-professed atheists and agnostics chant as you will your certainty of uncertainty or denial, but the reality of God is not tied into your disbelief or my belief…He exists because He is God. He love us because He IS Love. I’m not proselytizing, I’m just stating the Truth.
I recall one of the Methodist Articles of Religion is a rejection of the doctrine of supererogation (what is being described in the cartoon), but that all fall so short of God’s will, there is no extra to spread around
@Exoticdoc2: Actually, it’s proper Christian doctrine. CHRIST paid the price (was the propitiatory sacrifice) for all OUR sins; He “paid our entry fee”, as it were. Not “Liberalism”. Of course, the cartoon is playing on the “Liberal” view (as you would call it), but there’s a lot of theological truth in it, nonetheless.
Tandembuzz: It is proper Roman Catholic doctrine, thus the institution of saints to pray to for their specialties – sort of departmental polytheism light. It is because of the sufficiency of Christ, not supererogate saints, that they are irrelevant outside of the occasional example for emulation.
Dan, you’re an idiot. Oh, I know, if anyone bothers to come back here to check the latest conversation on this matter I’ll be crucified (oops!) for that nasty little bit of name-calling, but I just can’t help it. I usually make my arguments with logic and reason, but I know an idiot when I see one.
You make some interesting points about God, mercy and repentance, though of course they raise a lot of questions. Can you repent at the gates of heaven? Or does it have to be on your deathbed? What if you die before you get to repent? If you were on your way to church to confess your sins and got hit by a car, would God take your intention to go to confession into account? What if you believe in God but not organized religion, and don’t belong to a church? And where do you stand if, like me, you’re an unaffiliated, unobservant Jew?
You’re an idiot because you insist that somehow you know that deep inside me and everyone else on the planet there exists a belief in God, and that those of us who profess to be atheists or agnostics are just in denial (also your commentary on this issue has some problems with sentence structure and clarity, but I assume that’s due to your anger over my not believing as you do – something I’ve seen many times from believers who seem to take my atheism as a personal affront). Isn’t that God’s job, to see what’s truly inside all of us? When did you get the gig?
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you’re not an idiot, you might just be an arrogant jerk. (Oh no! There goes the name calling again! Bring on the critics!)
Brass Orchid Premium Member over 10 years ago
And it takes quite a bit of goodness on your part to offset the lingering affects of all his badness left behind in the world that exists after you are gone, so get busy.
rqs1123 over 10 years ago
This is the way that God intended it.
Vicar Premium Member over 10 years ago
AH, but the point is this – God is the judge, not we humans. It doesn’t matter what we think personally, It’s God’s decision. Heaven is not a democracy. It’s God’s kingdom.
Vicar Premium Member over 10 years ago
Additionally, I am so back in the 20th century, techwise, that I’m afraid I couldn’t get through Heaven’s registration page…..
paullp Premium Member over 10 years ago
Someone once said, “Because I believe in the Bible, I believe in Heaven and Hell. Because I believe in God’s infinite mercy, I believe that Hell is empty.”
I don’t believe in any of it, but if I did, that would be my sentiment too.
DanReynolds over 10 years ago
paullpIf God is full of infinite Mercy (which He is) and full of Justice (which He is), and He has given us a free will to choose between Him, who is Love, (which He has), then we should count on His being Merciful and Just. He can’t just be one or the other, only both. So, in His infinite Wisdom He has given you the opportunity to be a player in your quest to be with Him for eternity. If you do whatever you want thinking, "Ah, God’ll give me a pas in the end, then you are cheapening God’s love for you, and downgrading who God is. Not a great way to work with God in getting yourself into Heaven.God’s Mercy is greater than anyone’s sins, but the caveat is true remorse, true repentance. True repentance is NOT counting on God giving you a pass. And it is CERTAINLY not trying to make yourself believe He doesn’t exist so you don’t have to worry about.
Let me let in on a little secret that in the heart of hearts of ANY human being….they know, despite even a lifetime of denial and self deception that there IS a God. Oh, they’ll deny it and give you all the reasons in the world, but in the deepest recesses of EVERY human being (because this is how God made is – in His image) they know He is there, waiting, wanting them to come Home. Self-professed atheists and agnostics chant as you will your certainty of uncertainty or denial, but the reality of God is not tied into your disbelief or my belief…He exists because He is God. He love us because He IS Love. I’m not proselytizing, I’m just stating the Truth.
hippogriff over 10 years ago
I recall one of the Methodist Articles of Religion is a rejection of the doctrine of supererogation (what is being described in the cartoon), but that all fall so short of God’s will, there is no extra to spread around
Tandembuzz over 10 years ago
@Exoticdoc2: Actually, it’s proper Christian doctrine. CHRIST paid the price (was the propitiatory sacrifice) for all OUR sins; He “paid our entry fee”, as it were. Not “Liberalism”. Of course, the cartoon is playing on the “Liberal” view (as you would call it), but there’s a lot of theological truth in it, nonetheless.
hippogriff over 10 years ago
Tandembuzz: It is proper Roman Catholic doctrine, thus the institution of saints to pray to for their specialties – sort of departmental polytheism light. It is because of the sufficiency of Christ, not supererogate saints, that they are irrelevant outside of the occasional example for emulation.
paullp Premium Member over 10 years ago
Dan, you’re an idiot. Oh, I know, if anyone bothers to come back here to check the latest conversation on this matter I’ll be crucified (oops!) for that nasty little bit of name-calling, but I just can’t help it. I usually make my arguments with logic and reason, but I know an idiot when I see one.
You make some interesting points about God, mercy and repentance, though of course they raise a lot of questions. Can you repent at the gates of heaven? Or does it have to be on your deathbed? What if you die before you get to repent? If you were on your way to church to confess your sins and got hit by a car, would God take your intention to go to confession into account? What if you believe in God but not organized religion, and don’t belong to a church? And where do you stand if, like me, you’re an unaffiliated, unobservant Jew?
You’re an idiot because you insist that somehow you know that deep inside me and everyone else on the planet there exists a belief in God, and that those of us who profess to be atheists or agnostics are just in denial (also your commentary on this issue has some problems with sentence structure and clarity, but I assume that’s due to your anger over my not believing as you do – something I’ve seen many times from believers who seem to take my atheism as a personal affront). Isn’t that God’s job, to see what’s truly inside all of us? When did you get the gig?
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you’re not an idiot, you might just be an arrogant jerk. (Oh no! There goes the name calling again! Bring on the critics!)