In a nutshell? Partially “no, Rudy, you’re wrong, and so is the show”, and partially “only if you choose to view US and Allied actions in the most unfavorable and uncharitable way humanly possible”.
Frame 1: The Soviet Union did take twenty-odd times the casualties the US and Britain did in the fight against Germany. That’s what sort of happens in a war where a) the two opponents share a 1,500 mile land border and b) neither side signed the Geneva Conventions. It also forgets that Hitler and Stalin were allies from August 23, 1939 until June 22, 1941.
We also likely prevented the Soviet war effort from collapsing by supplying the Soviets with critical war material such as: a) 100 octane aviation fuel; b) thousands of trucks, and hundreds of locomotives, freight cars, and rails; c) waterproof telephone wire and communications equipment; and d) half a pound of food per Soviet soldier for every day of the war. We’ll also recall the combined US/UK bombing campaign which destroyed Nazi war factories and materiel, drew two million troops from the East to the West, drew most Nazi fighter aircraft from the East to the West, and diverted most Nazi optical equipment from anti-tank to anti-aircraft use.
Comments are length limited; more in the next response.
Frame 2: The Japanese were acting like a nation of pirates, and pirates aren’t prone to civil negotiations. Ask anyone in China, Hong Kong, or the Philippines about how their occupation was, and you’ll quickly learn why the Japanese needed to be stopped.
Frame 2: Japan was never officially trying to surrender when the bombs were dropped; it would have been easy enough to let the entire world know they were trying to via something called “radio”. The Swiss and Swedish Embassies were also available since both countries were neutral. This never happened until after both bombs were dropped and the Soviets declared war. Japan had refused the Potsdam Declaration demanding its surrender by either ignoring it completely, or “with studied contempt”, depending on which translation of the Japanese word used in its response was used by the Allies. Pardon us if after four years of nasty, bloodthirsty fighting which began with a sneak attack, we chose the less charitable translation.
Hiroshima was August 6th, 1945. The Soviet Union declared war on Japan August 8, 1945. Nagasaki was August 9, 1945. The Japanese got on the horn on August 14, 1945. Frame 2 is “pants on fire”.
Comments are length limited; more in the next response.
Frame 3: No, or at best partially true given Stalin’s moves. Stalin was already coldly breaking agreements made at Yalta and earlier negotiations before FDR died on April 12, 1945, and FDR stated his dismay at this before his death. Truman was very blunt with Molotov about this, and Molotov sputtered “he’d never been spoken to like this before”; Truman replied “live up to your agreements, and you won’t be spoken to this way”. Ask Poland about their free elections in 1945. Ask Greece or Turkey how close they were to being in the Warsaw Pact by force instead of NATO by choice. Ask East Germany in 1953, Hungary in 1956, or Czechoslovakia in 1968 how great the Warsaw Pact was. I don’t recall when Truman threatened to nuke the USSR, but it’s been ten years since I read the David McCullough bio of him, and I’ll admit the possibility exists. If the threat of such kept Stalin from attacking the West for the four crucial years after Germany surrendered, I’m with Truman and Churchill here.
Frame 3: pants smoldering.
Surely a PoliSci major knows all this. I admit Rudy ain’t the strongest coffee in the line of pots, but readers might get the wrong idea here. Beats me what point that show is trying to make, but Rudy at least has the Internet in front of him; he ought to be able to look all this up!
BE THIS GUY almost 8 years ago
Is Rudy prepping for “Jeopardy”?
GuyNamedGuy1960 almost 8 years ago
In a nutshell? Partially “no, Rudy, you’re wrong, and so is the show”, and partially “only if you choose to view US and Allied actions in the most unfavorable and uncharitable way humanly possible”.
Frame 1: The Soviet Union did take twenty-odd times the casualties the US and Britain did in the fight against Germany. That’s what sort of happens in a war where a) the two opponents share a 1,500 mile land border and b) neither side signed the Geneva Conventions. It also forgets that Hitler and Stalin were allies from August 23, 1939 until June 22, 1941.
We also likely prevented the Soviet war effort from collapsing by supplying the Soviets with critical war material such as: a) 100 octane aviation fuel; b) thousands of trucks, and hundreds of locomotives, freight cars, and rails; c) waterproof telephone wire and communications equipment; and d) half a pound of food per Soviet soldier for every day of the war. We’ll also recall the combined US/UK bombing campaign which destroyed Nazi war factories and materiel, drew two million troops from the East to the West, drew most Nazi fighter aircraft from the East to the West, and diverted most Nazi optical equipment from anti-tank to anti-aircraft use.
Comments are length limited; more in the next response.
GuyNamedGuy1960 almost 8 years ago
Frame 2: The Japanese were acting like a nation of pirates, and pirates aren’t prone to civil negotiations. Ask anyone in China, Hong Kong, or the Philippines about how their occupation was, and you’ll quickly learn why the Japanese needed to be stopped.
Frame 2: Japan was never officially trying to surrender when the bombs were dropped; it would have been easy enough to let the entire world know they were trying to via something called “radio”. The Swiss and Swedish Embassies were also available since both countries were neutral. This never happened until after both bombs were dropped and the Soviets declared war. Japan had refused the Potsdam Declaration demanding its surrender by either ignoring it completely, or “with studied contempt”, depending on which translation of the Japanese word used in its response was used by the Allies. Pardon us if after four years of nasty, bloodthirsty fighting which began with a sneak attack, we chose the less charitable translation.
Hiroshima was August 6th, 1945. The Soviet Union declared war on Japan August 8, 1945. Nagasaki was August 9, 1945. The Japanese got on the horn on August 14, 1945. Frame 2 is “pants on fire”.
Comments are length limited; more in the next response.
GuyNamedGuy1960 almost 8 years ago
Frame 3: No, or at best partially true given Stalin’s moves. Stalin was already coldly breaking agreements made at Yalta and earlier negotiations before FDR died on April 12, 1945, and FDR stated his dismay at this before his death. Truman was very blunt with Molotov about this, and Molotov sputtered “he’d never been spoken to like this before”; Truman replied “live up to your agreements, and you won’t be spoken to this way”. Ask Poland about their free elections in 1945. Ask Greece or Turkey how close they were to being in the Warsaw Pact by force instead of NATO by choice. Ask East Germany in 1953, Hungary in 1956, or Czechoslovakia in 1968 how great the Warsaw Pact was. I don’t recall when Truman threatened to nuke the USSR, but it’s been ten years since I read the David McCullough bio of him, and I’ll admit the possibility exists. If the threat of such kept Stalin from attacking the West for the four crucial years after Germany surrendered, I’m with Truman and Churchill here.
Frame 3: pants smoldering.
Surely a PoliSci major knows all this. I admit Rudy ain’t the strongest coffee in the line of pots, but readers might get the wrong idea here. Beats me what point that show is trying to make, but Rudy at least has the Internet in front of him; he ought to be able to look all this up!
ChukLitl Premium Member almost 8 years ago
The official version says we’re always the good guy. Opinions vary. Hacking the infostream with faulty data isn’t new to any side.
BeniHanna6 Premium Member almost 8 years ago
The one thing he has that is true is, Russia is definitely the one that broke Nazi Germany’s back.