Not only does this comic strip seem to be making fun of a statement of Holy Scripture which deals with a matter of eternal life and death, it also seems to be encouraging people to take the law into their own hands. How many people have been injured or killed simply because someone was carrying a gun “just for protection”? What kind of message does this send to kids? How many are already “packing a piece” and are willing to use it - even if someone else just looks at them the wrong way!
I really think this was being sarcasting and taking a shot at the pastor who has left the pastorate to teach people to shoot. It’s not making fun of Scripture.
I think it’s quite humorous and true. Gun control is not the answer. Put guns into the hands of smart people and they will use those guns wisely. I’m not a religious person, so I don’t have hangups like some people. The problem with religious people is they tend to be judgemental and should stop doing that. I am a born-again Christian which is much better than being religious.
I’ve always found this strip to be mildly irreverent, but never disrespectful of scripture. I don’ t think that is the intent here.
The Bible does say not to put our trust in horses, but in the Lord. I’m sure that applies to Glocks, too. So this is perhaps one strip that would have been better left in the writer’s head.
Shepherds are supposed to protect their flock. David used a slingshot to kill the wild animals that threatened his sheep. Nothing wrong with a pastor using a gun to protect his flock. However, logistically, it would be better to have armed ushers, etc. so a bad guy doesn’t have just one target to take out his opposition. I’ve often thought that a sanctuary could look like a bunch of sitting ducks to a crazed gunman. You would be surprised how many concealed carry permit holders legally carry handguns every day (including into churches) without negligent discharges . Many times, just drawing a gun is enough to stop a crime, and such incidents never show up in the crime statistics.
http://www.gunfacts.info/
You’re not going to stop a “crazed gunman”! The key word here is crazed. Most times he doesn’t give a rat’s a$$ if he is killed or not and many if not most of the time ends his own life in the process.
I believe in being allowed to carry a weapon, but there should be special classes and training for carrying a concealed weapon. This would include a psychological test to determine if that person can shoot at someone and with proper restraints, given the situation at hand. And I’m sorry, but going down to your local firing range or gun shop class does not constitute proper training.
In many instances carrying a weapon can cause as much harm as not carrying one. Ask someone who has been shot with their own weapon. And yes, it has and will happen.
Ask any veteran how “easy” it is to shoot someone the first time in a semi-controlled situation. The answers might surprise you. And they’ve been trained professionally!
Gun facts? Let a loved one be shot and all the facts and percentages don’t mean a damned thing. A percentage means “X” amount worked and “X” amount didn’t. Which side of that scale will your situation fall into today? Or tomorrow? Good Luck.
Sorry for the rant people. Barking NOR biting will scare a crazed individual.
My son is a missionary in Nicaragua. When he first went there, the church he served was looking for someone with military or police experience who could assist them in protecting church property long enough to get a building built for an orphanage, which the church also started. While they were trying to build, thieves would come at night and steal all of their building materials, tools, etc. - whatever they could get their hands on. So it was costing the church twice as much and taking twice as long to get the orphanage built as it should have. My son had military experience and had been a police officer with the Dallas, Texas police department before moving on with his education and heading toward the ministry. Sad as it seems, “freedom of religion” is NOT really a universal concept and, in a majority of countries, the possibility still exists that armed gunmen can - and often do - invade churches and begin killing church members. Even in Colorado, a year or so ago, a gunman entered a church in Colorado Springs and began shooting at church members. An armed guard, who was also an off-duty police woman, shot at the gunman and the gunman ended up turning his gun on himself. It is hard telling how many people he might have killed if she had NOT been armed. In another incident several years ago, an armed man went into a church service and shot his ex-wife - then began shooting at other people inside the church. An off-duty police officer managed to subdue the gunman before he did any more damage - but his ex-wife later died of her wounds. It is sad but true that, nowadays, churches need to invest in the same kind of security measures which any other organization takes in order to protect themselves and prevent needless loss of life when churches are attacked by determined gunmen.
And, as mentioned above, the disciples were packing heat at the Last Supper.
From Luke 22:
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
Crazed individuals can show up anywhere, at anytime. We have no way of knowing. Arm the churches? Should we start arming the Priest, Ministers, Rabbis, Nuns, oh and let’s not forget the Altar Boys and Altar Girls as well.
Obviously, a tough question.
I don’t understand about the swords. Christ’s intent always was to let himself be captured that night (read his prayer in the garden after the Last Supper). And when Peter did use his sword (rather clumsily, it turns out…he had not taken a swordsmanship course apparently) Jesus undid the minor damage.
One of our members is a policeman, and he wears a pistol under his coat and walks around the church during services with a cellphone. Seems prudent.
Comic strip or not, this is a worthwhile debate, absent the name-calling you see on some other strips.
@Ray C: If you read this text in context, rather than out of context, Jesus told his disciples that they should take swords because he was going to be numbered with the criminals, which is what happened. Transgressors, if you do the exegesis is the same as the word for the two criminals (robbers) that were crucified with him.
This was to fulfill the scriptures (Isaiah 53:12) according to Jesus in Luke 22:37.
Those who wish to use scripture to bolster their arguments should study Greek and Hebrew and do the work of seeing what the bible REALLY says.
“Spiritual warfare is far deadlier than physical warfare. I’d rather be unarmed and saved than to risk killing someone accidently.”
If an armed thug ever steps into your church and starts shooting people, I pray that an armed citizen is there to stop him so that you can continue your spiritual warfare.
Lildude, you made a big JUDGEMENT, when you said that “being a born again Christian is much better than being religious.”
You made a big error when you implied that born again Christians are not religious.
If you aren’t religious, you aren’t born again, because it is from religion that the concept of being born again comes. If you subscribe to the Bible, as I do, you ARE RELIGIOUS, no matter how you try to put other Christians down by playing word games.
“Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.” - James 1:27
I don’t know what I said, to earn that scolding from you, but I wasn’t using the passage to bolster any argument, If you read my statement carefully, you’ll see that I was saying that I don’t understand why Jesus asked them to bring swords. I wrote that I didn’t know why he said that when he intended not to fight but to go to the cross, in accordance with the Father’s will. Peter’s strike with the sword did absolutely no good and, thanks to Jesus, no harm. So what was the point? That was what I didn’t understand. I do understand about the “transgressor” prophecy and how that was fulfilled on Calvary.
What you said in your post ridicules my lack of scholarship, perhaps justifiably, but it helps my understanding not at all.
So if you have the time, and if you wish to build up a brother and explain patiently why I’m off base, I’d be happy to read it and to thank you for your time.
Ray C, Shika is a kind lady who will gladly do as you ask…..if she sees this. I know she was very tired and I believe she has retired for the night. I believe you are quite sincere in your faith and there is a miscommunication somewhere!
I like this strip, and don’t see a thing wrong with it. Our pastor is just a plain, old-time, friendly country preacher, and he keeps a gun for protection. He doesn’t make a big deal out of it, but knowing that people like him are armed makes me feel a lot safer.
Sorry Ray C I didn’t realize how it sounded to you. I was trying to explain to you about the swords- being helpful.
I was scolding, if that is how you see it, the other posters deborah and lildude, who seem to judge others, and deborah specifically for using that scripture to bolster the packing heat mentality that causes accidental deaths and injuries.
I was not scolding you in any way. I’m sorry for that impression.
Folks, if you think guns are dangerous, let me point out something. From July 2004 until May 2005 I was in a compound in which each of the 1200 persons were armed every day with automatic weapons and enough ammunition to take out over 100 people. During that time, not one negligent discharge of a weapon occured, nor did anyone intenentionally shoot anyone else. It’s not the weapon, which is only a tool. It’s the person who wields it who causes the harm.
“How many people have been injured or killed simply because someone was carrying a gun “just for protection”?
I carry 24/7 (except in the shower or asleep) “just for protection” and have yet to kill or injure anyone.
“What kind of message does this send to kids? How many are already “packing a piece” and are willing to use it - even if someone else just looks at them the wrong way!”
There are bad people and there are good people. Bad people with guns want to hurt others. Good people with guns want to protect themselves and their loved-ones.
Guns do not have a magical, mystical ability to gain control of the users mind. The mind controls the gun.
I think people would be very surprised if they knew just how many pastors DID have military or police training BEFORE entering the ministry - and so DO have some expertise in areas of self defense. Years ago, when I grew up, most of the people in the small, rural town where I lived NEVER locked their doors. Now, sadly, all of those folks DO lock their doors. Likewise, in those days, most churches were able to be open 24/7 and did NOT need to be staffed - because it was not likely that anyone who went into the church would be entering the church for the purpose of doing mischief or harming another individual. All of that has changed. I believe there is a community on the East coast - some place like New Jersey - whose members were recently shocked when the a local pastor was found dead in the church’s kitchen. Somewhat later, the church janitor confessed to the murder, saying that the two of them had argued. There was a time when such an occurrence would have been unthinkable. That is no longer true.
Just this year, following a shooting incident in a church in Illinois, a number of the city’s pastors started a self-defense class for pastors and other church personnel. This class was based on a model used by the Israeli army to teach self-defense to rabbis who are pastors of synagogues in Israel.
You can find more news about the Illinois shooting at:
CHURCH SOLUTIONS
Illinois Pastor shot, killed; Church members apprehend suspect
http://www.churchsolutionsmag.com/hotnews/illinois-pastor-shot-killed-church-members.html
A very interesting article about the increasing need for churches to become security minded was written by Eric Spacek in 2006. You can find a copy of that article at the following link
CHURCH SOLUTIONS
Yesterday and Today
A Guide to Church Security Planning
http://www.churchsolutionsmag.com/articles/623/623_4c1high1.html
A very interesting sermon by a Presbyterian pastor on the subject of Luke 22:35-38 can be found at
JESUS’ PRESCRIPTION OF THE SWORD
http://www.aplacefortruth.org/Jesus.sword.hammond
This is a week late since I just came upon this strip. A few months ago where I live this town made unfortuantly national news. A man walked in a church on far east side of town and assiginanted a certain type of Dr. The man who shot cold blooded lived elsewhere and decided on revenge on a certain Dr. the authories found him and brought him back for 1 degree murder. This happened on a Sunday.
i_am_the_jam almost 15 years ago
It’s even more disturbing when wackos enter churches and start shooting at everyone.
ejcapulet almost 15 years ago
This is in Texas, isn’t it?
tomsdiy almost 15 years ago
Not only does this comic strip seem to be making fun of a statement of Holy Scripture which deals with a matter of eternal life and death, it also seems to be encouraging people to take the law into their own hands. How many people have been injured or killed simply because someone was carrying a gun “just for protection”? What kind of message does this send to kids? How many are already “packing a piece” and are willing to use it - even if someone else just looks at them the wrong way!
hank197857 almost 15 years ago
what a sad commentary … and i had high hope for this strip :(
dianecliff almost 15 years ago
I really think this was being sarcasting and taking a shot at the pastor who has left the pastorate to teach people to shoot. It’s not making fun of Scripture.
lildude77504 almost 15 years ago
I think it’s quite humorous and true. Gun control is not the answer. Put guns into the hands of smart people and they will use those guns wisely. I’m not a religious person, so I don’t have hangups like some people. The problem with religious people is they tend to be judgemental and should stop doing that. I am a born-again Christian which is much better than being religious.
carmy almost 15 years ago
O ye of little faith!
Ray_C almost 15 years ago
I’ve always found this strip to be mildly irreverent, but never disrespectful of scripture. I don’ t think that is the intent here. The Bible does say not to put our trust in horses, but in the Lord. I’m sure that applies to Glocks, too. So this is perhaps one strip that would have been better left in the writer’s head.
Smiley Rmom almost 15 years ago
Shepherds are supposed to protect their flock. David used a slingshot to kill the wild animals that threatened his sheep. Nothing wrong with a pastor using a gun to protect his flock. However, logistically, it would be better to have armed ushers, etc. so a bad guy doesn’t have just one target to take out his opposition. I’ve often thought that a sanctuary could look like a bunch of sitting ducks to a crazed gunman. You would be surprised how many concealed carry permit holders legally carry handguns every day (including into churches) without negligent discharges . Many times, just drawing a gun is enough to stop a crime, and such incidents never show up in the crime statistics. http://www.gunfacts.info/
carmy almost 15 years ago
Jesus is our Shepherd, He doesn’t use a gun.
tabbylynn almost 15 years ago
Amen Carmy Amen.
i_am_the_jam almost 15 years ago
He didn’t use a gun, but at the Last Supper, He ORDERED the disciples to carry a sword to guard themselves against thieves.
COWBOY7 almost 15 years ago
You’re not going to stop a “crazed gunman”! The key word here is crazed. Most times he doesn’t give a rat’s a$$ if he is killed or not and many if not most of the time ends his own life in the process.
I believe in being allowed to carry a weapon, but there should be special classes and training for carrying a concealed weapon. This would include a psychological test to determine if that person can shoot at someone and with proper restraints, given the situation at hand. And I’m sorry, but going down to your local firing range or gun shop class does not constitute proper training.
In many instances carrying a weapon can cause as much harm as not carrying one. Ask someone who has been shot with their own weapon. And yes, it has and will happen.
Ask any veteran how “easy” it is to shoot someone the first time in a semi-controlled situation. The answers might surprise you. And they’ve been trained professionally!
Gun facts? Let a loved one be shot and all the facts and percentages don’t mean a damned thing. A percentage means “X” amount worked and “X” amount didn’t. Which side of that scale will your situation fall into today? Or tomorrow? Good Luck.
Sorry for the rant people. Barking NOR biting will scare a crazed individual.
DebJ4 almost 15 years ago
My son is a missionary in Nicaragua. When he first went there, the church he served was looking for someone with military or police experience who could assist them in protecting church property long enough to get a building built for an orphanage, which the church also started. While they were trying to build, thieves would come at night and steal all of their building materials, tools, etc. - whatever they could get their hands on. So it was costing the church twice as much and taking twice as long to get the orphanage built as it should have. My son had military experience and had been a police officer with the Dallas, Texas police department before moving on with his education and heading toward the ministry. Sad as it seems, “freedom of religion” is NOT really a universal concept and, in a majority of countries, the possibility still exists that armed gunmen can - and often do - invade churches and begin killing church members. Even in Colorado, a year or so ago, a gunman entered a church in Colorado Springs and began shooting at church members. An armed guard, who was also an off-duty police woman, shot at the gunman and the gunman ended up turning his gun on himself. It is hard telling how many people he might have killed if she had NOT been armed. In another incident several years ago, an armed man went into a church service and shot his ex-wife - then began shooting at other people inside the church. An off-duty police officer managed to subdue the gunman before he did any more damage - but his ex-wife later died of her wounds. It is sad but true that, nowadays, churches need to invest in the same kind of security measures which any other organization takes in order to protect themselves and prevent needless loss of life when churches are attacked by determined gunmen.
And, as mentioned above, the disciples were packing heat at the Last Supper.
From Luke 22:
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
PattiS almost 15 years ago
Love it!!
COWBOY7 almost 15 years ago
DeborahReyes
Professional security measures would be welcome. In your instances these were/are professionally trained individuals.
Dry and Dusty Premium Member almost 15 years ago
Crazed individuals can show up anywhere, at anytime. We have no way of knowing. Arm the churches? Should we start arming the Priest, Ministers, Rabbis, Nuns, oh and let’s not forget the Altar Boys and Altar Girls as well.
ninetoes almost 15 years ago
Um, it’s a comics strip not Larry King. Besides, “Pistol Packing Pastor” has a funny ring to it. ;)
Ray_C almost 15 years ago
Obviously, a tough question. I don’t understand about the swords. Christ’s intent always was to let himself be captured that night (read his prayer in the garden after the Last Supper). And when Peter did use his sword (rather clumsily, it turns out…he had not taken a swordsmanship course apparently) Jesus undid the minor damage. One of our members is a policeman, and he wears a pistol under his coat and walks around the church during services with a cellphone. Seems prudent. Comic strip or not, this is a worthwhile debate, absent the name-calling you see on some other strips.
Dry and Dusty Premium Member almost 15 years ago
Ray C like SOTU?
tabbylynn almost 15 years ago
Dry you beat me to it. :P
Dry and Dusty Premium Member almost 15 years ago
Sorry about that Tabby! I couldn’t resist!
tabbylynn almost 15 years ago
Dry i was still typing and i thought that. its okay you can have this one. :D
Shikamoo Premium Member almost 15 years ago
A sad commentary on society.
Spiritual warfare is far deadlier than physical warfare. I’d rather be unarmed and saved than to risk killing someone accidently.
Shikamoo Premium Member almost 15 years ago
@Ray C: If you read this text in context, rather than out of context, Jesus told his disciples that they should take swords because he was going to be numbered with the criminals, which is what happened. Transgressors, if you do the exegesis is the same as the word for the two criminals (robbers) that were crucified with him.
This was to fulfill the scriptures (Isaiah 53:12) according to Jesus in Luke 22:37.
Those who wish to use scripture to bolster their arguments should study Greek and Hebrew and do the work of seeing what the bible REALLY says.
jmorris99999 almost 15 years ago
“Spiritual warfare is far deadlier than physical warfare. I’d rather be unarmed and saved than to risk killing someone accidently.”
If an armed thug ever steps into your church and starts shooting people, I pray that an armed citizen is there to stop him so that you can continue your spiritual warfare.
ChuckTrent64 almost 15 years ago
Lildude, you made a big JUDGEMENT, when you said that “being a born again Christian is much better than being religious.” You made a big error when you implied that born again Christians are not religious. If you aren’t religious, you aren’t born again, because it is from religion that the concept of being born again comes. If you subscribe to the Bible, as I do, you ARE RELIGIOUS, no matter how you try to put other Christians down by playing word games.
i_am_the_jam almost 15 years ago
“Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.” - James 1:27
Ray_C almost 15 years ago
Shikamoo,
I don’t know what I said, to earn that scolding from you, but I wasn’t using the passage to bolster any argument, If you read my statement carefully, you’ll see that I was saying that I don’t understand why Jesus asked them to bring swords. I wrote that I didn’t know why he said that when he intended not to fight but to go to the cross, in accordance with the Father’s will. Peter’s strike with the sword did absolutely no good and, thanks to Jesus, no harm. So what was the point? That was what I didn’t understand. I do understand about the “transgressor” prophecy and how that was fulfilled on Calvary.
What you said in your post ridicules my lack of scholarship, perhaps justifiably, but it helps my understanding not at all. So if you have the time, and if you wish to build up a brother and explain patiently why I’m off base, I’d be happy to read it and to thank you for your time.
The Duke 1 almost 15 years ago
Ray C, Shika is a kind lady who will gladly do as you ask…..if she sees this. I know she was very tired and I believe she has retired for the night. I believe you are quite sincere in your faith and there is a miscommunication somewhere!
Ray_C almost 15 years ago
Thanks, JFri. I don’t want to fight, just communicate. Maybe best just to let this whole thing slide. I, too, was tired when I posted it.
natureboyfig4 Premium Member almost 15 years ago
I like this strip, and don’t see a thing wrong with it. Our pastor is just a plain, old-time, friendly country preacher, and he keeps a gun for protection. He doesn’t make a big deal out of it, but knowing that people like him are armed makes me feel a lot safer.
Shikamoo Premium Member almost 15 years ago
Sorry Ray C I didn’t realize how it sounded to you. I was trying to explain to you about the swords- being helpful.
I was scolding, if that is how you see it, the other posters deborah and lildude, who seem to judge others, and deborah specifically for using that scripture to bolster the packing heat mentality that causes accidental deaths and injuries.
I was not scolding you in any way. I’m sorry for that impression.
MisngNOLA almost 15 years ago
Folks, if you think guns are dangerous, let me point out something. From July 2004 until May 2005 I was in a compound in which each of the 1200 persons were armed every day with automatic weapons and enough ammunition to take out over 100 people. During that time, not one negligent discharge of a weapon occured, nor did anyone intenentionally shoot anyone else. It’s not the weapon, which is only a tool. It’s the person who wields it who causes the harm.
Purplehood almost 15 years ago
“How many people have been injured or killed simply because someone was carrying a gun “just for protection”? I carry 24/7 (except in the shower or asleep) “just for protection” and have yet to kill or injure anyone. “What kind of message does this send to kids? How many are already “packing a piece” and are willing to use it - even if someone else just looks at them the wrong way!” There are bad people and there are good people. Bad people with guns want to hurt others. Good people with guns want to protect themselves and their loved-ones. Guns do not have a magical, mystical ability to gain control of the users mind. The mind controls the gun.
comic_1 almost 15 years ago
It wasn’t a Glock but rather a Smith and Wesson
DebJ4 almost 15 years ago
I think people would be very surprised if they knew just how many pastors DID have military or police training BEFORE entering the ministry - and so DO have some expertise in areas of self defense. Years ago, when I grew up, most of the people in the small, rural town where I lived NEVER locked their doors. Now, sadly, all of those folks DO lock their doors. Likewise, in those days, most churches were able to be open 24/7 and did NOT need to be staffed - because it was not likely that anyone who went into the church would be entering the church for the purpose of doing mischief or harming another individual. All of that has changed. I believe there is a community on the East coast - some place like New Jersey - whose members were recently shocked when the a local pastor was found dead in the church’s kitchen. Somewhat later, the church janitor confessed to the murder, saying that the two of them had argued. There was a time when such an occurrence would have been unthinkable. That is no longer true.
Just this year, following a shooting incident in a church in Illinois, a number of the city’s pastors started a self-defense class for pastors and other church personnel. This class was based on a model used by the Israeli army to teach self-defense to rabbis who are pastors of synagogues in Israel.
You can find more news about the Illinois shooting at: CHURCH SOLUTIONS Illinois Pastor shot, killed; Church members apprehend suspect http://www.churchsolutionsmag.com/hotnews/illinois-pastor-shot-killed-church-members.html
A very interesting article about the increasing need for churches to become security minded was written by Eric Spacek in 2006. You can find a copy of that article at the following link CHURCH SOLUTIONS Yesterday and Today A Guide to Church Security Planning http://www.churchsolutionsmag.com/articles/623/623_4c1high1.html
A very interesting sermon by a Presbyterian pastor on the subject of Luke 22:35-38 can be found at JESUS’ PRESCRIPTION OF THE SWORD http://www.aplacefortruth.org/Jesus.sword.hammond
kab2rb almost 15 years ago
This is a week late since I just came upon this strip. A few months ago where I live this town made unfortuantly national news. A man walked in a church on far east side of town and assiginanted a certain type of Dr. The man who shot cold blooded lived elsewhere and decided on revenge on a certain Dr. the authories found him and brought him back for 1 degree murder. This happened on a Sunday.