Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for June 18, 2010

You tell them, Duke. 17% is better than I would have expected.

Well, BP hired an oily guy for their job, just as they are trying to hire an oily judge for the law suits.

Duke’s “I’ve seen worse” matches the comment of Rep. Parker Griffith (R, Alabama) at the Hayward hearings:

“I’d like to remind the committee that the greatest environmental disaster in America has been cigarettes,” he said. Therefore, “the spill is not going to be the worst thing that’s ever happened to America.”

Could Duke and the congressman help BP’s case by comparing Big Oil with Big Tobacco? Maybe there are still some libertarians and Teabaggers out there who hate Big Government even “worse” than those two overcapitalized juggernauts.

Did Duke get Congressman Barton to apologize to BP, thus taking a bullet for Tony?

Did the Prez misspeak when he called this spill the worst ecological disaster in America? Perhaps they don’t teach American classics in Hawaii, but didn’t Steinbeck have a book about a true disaster?Maybe the Dust Bowl doesn’t count cause it hurt mostly people with pale faces, The spill put a lot of people out of work. Wonder who’s going to feed the children of oil workers because of the knee jerk moratorium?

PALIN Us libertarians might fear big Government more than big business. Third world countries have big government but no big business, But beyond that, our founding fathers wrote the Constitution to limit federal government. I believe Article 10 of the Bill of Rights forbids the fed from stealing power. But if you want a government that tells you what to do, join Congress in their centuries long quest to undermine the foundation of America.

PS It’s not a sin to make a profit. If you don’t like capitalism, I can think of four failed communist states you might like to visit. Can’t think of any successful ones.

Wonder who’s going to feed the children of oil workers because of the knee jerk moratorium?

BP, it seems - they are stumping up something like $100 million dollars precisely for this (in addition to the $20 billion). This really does seem to be going above and beyond their responsibility. If the US govt is unhappy with its own regulations and the drilling authorized to date, surely that should have been for them to sort out ,not dump the costs on the company unlucky enough to come a cropper - it was evidently an accident waiting to happen in the Gulf of Mexico.

Lewreader: Perhaps President Obama did not speak precisely enough. This is the greatest man-made natural disaster. Yes, the Dust Bowl era was devastating to many people in this country but that was a natural occurrence (or unnatural, if you will) of an extremely long period of drought. If people contributed to it, it was simply from over-farming the land just trying to get by, not bump up profits by half a billion dollars.

I will agree that communism does not work. That is because it is based on a false premise. It assumes that people are all egalitarian and will gladly share what they have with everyone else. Bad guess.

Capitalism works because it is based on a correct premise. Capitalism assumes people are greedy and will do everything they can to make money. That is why it works. However, many times we have seen that capitalistic greed works against the good of all people. We had collusive price-fixing until the government stepped in and created the anti-trust laws. Then we had the stock market crash of 1929 and the depression that followed until the government stepped in and began regulating securities trading. Now we have had the Wall Street meltdown and the government is once again having to step in and regulate these investment banks.

In short, if the greed that makes capitalism work did not end up hurting the consumer, then I would be all for as small a government as possible. But the world many Libertarians live in does not exist. I read a quote recently where a leading Libertarian thinker had to admit that sometimes his ideals ran into reality and his ideals had to give way to that reality. Would that a few more Libs would do the same.

Sorry for the different subject but did we invade Afganistan before or after we found out about the trillions of dollars worth of minerals?

Before anyone feels sorry for the $20 billion BP has set aside, I suggest you review their profits from first quarter. And before you say I am suggesting profit is bad, remember part of capitalism is risk reward. When you seek a profit you risk losing as well as winning.

Lewreader, I can think one unsuccessful country with big business and little government: check out Nigeria, and see what Royal Dutch shell does to make it the most polluted place on Earth.

TexTech, the Dust Bowl was partially a man-made phenomonon. The wave of new dry land farmers of the time harrowed and broke up the soil in long straight lines so that the dry winds (the natural part) were able to sweep the fields away. They don’t farm that way anymore to avoid this happening again.

There’s blame enough to go around on the BP well whoops - including that of the Dept. of the Interior who approved BP’s contingency plans and the general public who greedily sucks down the products that these deep wells produce - , but character is defined by what happens afterwards. BP (from all reports) has stepped up to the plate. Our government’s reluctance to allow foreign assistance due to union political pressure (only 15 ships have been given waivers to the Jones act, vs. Bush declaring blanket waivers to help after Katrina) speaks volumes to character.

By the way, the facts cited are not from Fox… they’re from CBS.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/15/eveningnews/main6586223.shtml

Back Pedal

Horace,

If Washington had to act every time some group cries “apartheid,” all the govt.’s energy would be spent policing the keepers of fishbarrels (or fishbowls) from Uzbekistan and Tibet to the reservations of North America.

I think your particular goldfish are unhappy because Washington is more concerned about the state of our Gulf fishbowl. At least we know our government is on our side and isn’t making new enemies by firing rockets into Mexico.

Palin drome, I like the analogy to oil dependence and cigarette dependence, but along with that comparision comes the reality that in neither case did these “juggernaughts” force their way into our lives and force us to support them.

The only purpose for starting smoking is to look cool, and since I never had that defect I never got hooked on them. Similarly, I purposely live about a mile away from work so that I do not waste hours in my day in my car, and so am not dependent on buying gas to earn my livelyhood. People who make other choices - such as commuting to work an hour each way every day - need to deal with the consequences of their addictions beyond resenting the dealers they’ve chosen to support all their lives.

Big government is also the result of a choice, but it’s a collective one that allows people with guns to take things from us in the name of the state. Yeah, I trust the oil and tobacco companies more than big government, becasue I can - and have - chosen to kick their bad habits.

Back to analogies, there’s a lot of momentum behind the American voters’ sudden addiction to big government… sort of like inner city residents who get hooked on drugs as a consequence of depression formented by their bad family values. Big goverment lets folks put their cares aside and sit back with a glazed expression (sipping kool aid is optional). Will they wake up and realize what the crack they’re buying for a cheap high is doing to them in the long run? We’ll see if the Tea Party’s intervention is enough in November.

@horace: If you’re so insistent on comic strips shedding light on the Palestinian issue, why don’t you draw one yourself. But please stop berating Garry Trudeau for not doing your bidding.

@Lewreader: This was not an accident. While BP, Halliburton and TransOcean point fingers at one another, one thing seems to be clear – shortcuts were taken at nearly every step of the process, and BP is ultimately the one responsible for managing that process. The government’s fault was in trusting that BP and the other oil companies had some idea how to stop a leak a mile under water when they obviously hadn’t a clue.

@Nemesys: It’s a big stretch to assume that unions are blocking foreign ships from helping in the cleanup. From what I’ve seen, many of the ships working on the cleanup are local fishing and shrimping vessels from the gulf area. I can’t imagine any kind of fishermen’s union complaining about foreign ships coming to help in the cleanup process since their primary concern would be their jobs, which means cleaning the oil up as quickly as possible.

For better or worse, the government is still relying on BP to call the shots. That means decisions on who works on the cleanup as well. Personally I think it should be all hands on deck to get the oil out of the water and away from the shoreline.

Nemesys,

I share your distrust of big government’s social engineering, but I think that in this case you’re overlooking the executive (as opposed to the legislative) responsibilities of the president.

Constitutionally (s)he’s the Chief Executive, which means he has to enforce the laws. Ordering his Justice Dept. to look into BP’s possibly criminal activity is Obama’s Constitutional duty, not an unconstitutional seizure of property.

Obama believes that Americans don’t want bigger government, they want govt. that works better. By November, if the oil spill has been contained and indemnification as well as cleanup are on track, Obama’s party will probably win more votes for his executive effectiveness than they will lose on account of his ill-understood health care reforms.

@Larry, remember the attacks by Al Qaeda against the U.S.? Afghanistan was the safe haven for them, so there was a reason to attack. Trouble is, our resources were redirected to Iraq to avenge the attempt on W’s father years before. W got his revenge by beheading Hussein, but at what cost? Meanwhile, we have worn out our welcome in Afghanistan.

jhouck, it’s not the fisherman who would complain. The Jones Act requires that boats used to help in the crisis must be US made, US owned, and US crewed. As a matter of his principles and alligance, Obama is reluctant to go against the huge union/Democrat alliance that these industries represent. There are local folks who are risking jail sentences to hire foreign vessels to help keep their shores free from oil. The Christian Science Monitor has a good summary on the situation - see whose statements seem most credible on the topic:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0616/Jones-Act-Does-Gulf-oil-spill-cleanup-need-more-foreign-boats

I agree that it’s time for all hands on deck… if the government would simply get out of the way.

Lew, you posit a false dichotomy: capitalism vs. communism. Unbridled capitalism destroys societies & nature, as we see with this oil spill. Co-operative communism has never been tried, but humanity may not be ready to work for the commonweal.

Thus, we need a mixed capitalist-socialist society, which we see in successful countries such as England, France, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, & Japan.

Nemesys, how many foreign ships have applied to help with the oil spill? Please cite your claim about Bush-Dick’s blanket waivers in re Katrina.

As for your fears about Big Government, I sympathize, but in our recent history, Big Government has been run by Big Oil, Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, Big Insurance, & the Military-Industrial complex. Why do you think that President Obama has had two foreign occupations to end, health-care reform to pass, equal-pay laws to pass, a serious recession to fix, AND the hugest oil spill in history to halt & to remedy? This is the legacy of Bush-Dick’s Big Government owned by Big Business, and we will pay for Bush-Dick’s sins for a generation.

As for our “addiction to big government”, the Tea Baggers are the most addicted: They want to keep a huge military, social security, & Medicare, but they don’t want to pay any taxes. They want ALL their heroin, but they want it free.

Heads up on stebon:

I am posting this relatively early in response to the late posting stebon.

Stebon is a late poster that many of you folks don’t get a chance to read. Here is a little info on her. (Perhaps I’m getting stebon’s gender wrong. Who knows?)

It’s quite annoying, you know, that she posts so late. It’s almost impossible to respond to her comments and be read by many people. Check the Doonesbury (and other) posts from the last two days. They are fairly incredible.

I thought I’d pass on a little known factoid about her that few people know. (Well before her post for today)

She seems, of course, to be a downright dyed-in-the-wool right wing, anti-socialist commentator, unafraid to castigate denigrate, and smear Mr. Trudeau at every opportunity. Her pithy comments are, for many (on the right), right on the mark.

However, the rest of the story, as a well known radio commentator was more than fond of saying, is quite different!

She is actually a hardened unrepentant left-wing socialist plant. Her deliberately over-the-top comments are really just attempts at painting all right-wing commentators with a broad and ugly brush. Her supposedly heartfelt remarks are often an easy target for outraged lefties and middle-of-the-roadies. Thus in line with her perverse plan, she sneakily “proves” the unreasonableness of the right.

So if you happen to read comments late and run across some of her succinct and pithy remarks, do not be tempted to tear your hair and rant back at her. She is sneaky. Ignore those comments, for they are not what they seem.

Or are they?

Horace, by the way, is very likely one of her left-wing co-conspirators.

Further info can be found at http://www.unlikelyideas.con or writing to Box 666, Dontask, SD.

how can a simple pair of glasses be such a good disguise for superman?

oops! wrong cartoon….

never mind!

neme wrote: ” We’ll see if the Tea Party’s intervention is enough in November”

The baggie’s “intervention” for a government is not to install a big government, but an ALL ENCOMPASSING government which is called a theocracy.

Perhaps with Duke’s help, the baggie morons can twist and spin ad revise facts so that people will forget at election time that they are mostly wanting to replace a large secular government with a 100% controlling Bronze Age religious government. That is why Palin is their darling.

Nice work, Poohbear. S/he gives away the game by the inverted name: steboN=No bets. That is to say, politically uncommitted. Not sure if the same holds for “horace_manoor,” whose last name could be a deliberate insult to Palestinians.

poo wrote: ” It’s quite annoying, you know, that she posts so late. It’s almost impossible to respond to her comments and be read by many people. ”

TOUGH. Apparently it is beyond your comprehension that most people have important things going on in their lives and MAY OR MAY NOT get around to reading comics AT ALL on some days.

Be annoyed, I have no intention of giving up my morning workouts just so that YOU can get in the last word, cooter.

poo wrote: “Her deliberately over-the-top comments are really just attempts at painting all right-wing commentators with a broad and ugly brush. ”

Like it is even necessary for her to do so. Right wingers shoot themselves in the foot every time they shoot off their mouths. It is impossible to paint them worse than they do themselves.

poo wrote: ” Horace, by the way, is very likely one of her left-wing co-conspirators. ”

They only thing more hilarious than a right wingers ignorance is their paranoia. Seek professional help.

misterwhite, the desire to install a theocracy is a product of your imagination, as is BrianCrook’s insistance that Tea Party folks don’t want to pay any taxes. Quoting a couple kooks won’tmake a case, either. If you’re going to take these folks on in November, you’re both simply going to have to do better.

Sources already cited, btw.

Horace Mann was a great education reformer of his day (a few centuries ago.) I am not sure why anyone would want to name himself Horace Manoor, but I assume there is a connection. A clever play on words? If so, I guess I don’t see it, but there you are.

misterwhite: There are limits required of civil discourse, and I have flagged your post.

“Baggie morons” combines a vulgar sexual reference with a blanket insult to a substantial number of people with sincere concerns. (No, I am not one of them, if it matters.)

And “Bronze Age religious government” is simple ignorance: it suggests that all Tea Party folks want a Judeo-Christian theocracy. I would imagine that few of them do – they want everyone else to share their values, which is a normal human impulse, but I doubt a dictatorship to that end would sit well with them. And while Judaism appeared at the very end of the Bronze Age – and has given us principles of ethics and social justice that have never been improved on – Christianity came much later. (Besides, what makes you think that ancient peoples were any less sensible than we are now? Reading some of the posts here might make you believe otherwise.)

misterwhite:

I’m finding it very difficult to say “WELL EXCUSE ME!” It keeps coming out “VULL EFFUVE MEEF!”

I think it’s because my tongue is too firmly implanted in my cheek. (No! not that one!)

Please notice the contact info at the bottom of my post.

Today’s political debate is sounding admirably true to the pitch set by GT. All of the serious posters, fortunately, are principled democrats in that we’re ready to accept the voters’ judgment in November.

That means we’re not ideologues wed to our ideas (or cartoons) and heedless of the common good. In a democracy, the exercise of power will always be problematic and will generate heated discussion.

More than anyone else, Machiavelli has explored how power works in a democracy–not in his cynical The Prince but in his Discourses, where he grounds lasting government not on the wills of rulers but on the people’s cautious but decisive vote.

If they took the trouble to read and think for themselves, Teabaggers would make the Discourses their political Bible. Our Second Amendment is based on Machiavelli’s axiom that no state can remain free once its govt. starts hiring mercenaries, who can be used to oppress an unarmed people.

THAT’s the kind of Big Government you don’t want to trust–one that has a monopoly on arms.

palin drome:

Is it possible that the audience of The Prince was not the rulers, but the ruled, a warning so to speak?

@montessoriteacher: I think his play on words is a little less clever than you’re supposing. His nom de plume is homonymous to horse manure, which seems fitting for the drivel he posts…

@Nemesys: Upon reading the CSM article you linked, I don’t draw the same conclusion you do. As it stated, “the oil spill unified command on Tuesday streamlined the waiver process” – to me that sounds like they are addressing the issue in a way that still allows for oversight of the ships activities, which a blanket waiver would not do.

Some Machiavelli scholars make that argument, poohbear. But Machiavelli dedicated the work to a tyrant, Lorenzo de’ Medici–hoping he’d get back his government job. He was too clever for a tyrant to trust him, however. So he was debarred from the civil service and spent his time writing the Discourses. (Duke is trying to do for BP what Machiavelli did for his prince. He’ll get fired, too, but I doubt he’ll retire so he can meditate on democracy.)

@montessori: Maybe Horace’s name brings into play the Arabic word “Noor” that’s used to translate the Turkish series of tv soaps (“Gumus”). See today’s NYT at

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/18/arts/18abroad.html?hpw

The objection to “Baggies” has become so yesterday. In their admirable political innocence, Teapartiers have stripped the word “teabagging” of its sexual innuendo and they hang real teabags on their ears like earrings. Give them credit for reviving a great moment (Machiavelli would say “crisis/opportunity”) in America’s history.

palin dome, while I agree with your first two paragraphs, I take exception to the third. However, I suppose that was the point.

While being something of a pragmatist, I am sympathetic to the Tea Parties key messages, and yet do my best to think for myself. And yes, I’ve read Machiavelli, and Kant, and Rand, and Mao, and Paine,and Tzu, and even a little Crowley and de Sade (mostly on Saturday nights, but that’s another topic).

The term you used for your political Nemesys (sic) is offensive, btw. Yes, early members did use it, but that’s like saying it’s ok to use the “n word” against people simply because members of that community have used it among themselves too. It means very different things in context.

Well with that off my chest - I was going to make a comment…

Lew Re: “If you don’t like capitalism, I can think of four failed communist states you might like to visit. Can’t think of any successful ones.” How about The People’s Republic of China - they’re still ruled by the Chinese Communist Party. I realize China is not the same as it was during the brutal rule of Mao (and no, I’m not advocating Communism). But it seems there is at least one successful “Communist Country”.

Hope my last comment on “teabagging” cleared things up, Nemesys. And of course I realize that some Teabaggers think for themselves–and even read Machiavelli. It’s just that political satire like GT’s has to deal in stereotypes if it’s going to be entertaining.

GJ_Jehosaphat: Put your sandwich in a Ziploc® bag, of course. :)

Perhaps I overreacted to “baggie” – I assumed that everyone here had been following the back-and-forth about the term’s frankly obscene and demeaning origin. Mostly, though, I was responding to misterwhite’s overall tone, which was deliberately and unnecessarily insulting.

I’ve seen just the kind of trash talk you’re referring to on other boards than Gocomics – and I avoid them. (What is SOTU, by the way?) Life is too short to waste associating with boors and fools. I believe that if people can’t keep a civil tongue in their heads, the best they can do is keep their mouths shut. I follow that rule myself.

Now that BP has publicly pledged all that money, they don’t have to actually spend it since we’ll all believe they did anyway.

CedarCircle, this isn’t a charity telethon – someone will be keeping a cool and unsympathetic eye on how the money comes in and goes out. Sham and coverup is still possible, but a lot harder than it used to be.

SOTU = State Of The Union.

BTW - I use “old fashioned” Reynolds® Cut-Rite® Wax Paper’ - less plastic waste in the environment. I was going for humor to lighten up the discussion.

GJ_J, you’re talking to someone who puts the “old” in “old fashioned”. :) Wax paper is still invaluable for food, isn’t it – as well as certain arts and crafts. And since most plastics are petroleum-based, avoiding them not only is easier on the environment, but reduces our dependence on oil…however marginally. Which segues us neatly back on topic!

GJ_J, I looked at State of the Union – some of the past strips, since its creator says he’s done. That seems a shame; it was well done, and we really do need the full spectrum of opinion. As someone once said, when two people agree on everything, one of them is unnecessary. :) And mutually respected adversaries sharpen each other’s intellect and rhetorical skills, not to mention putting a shot of adrenaline in an otherwise slow day!

But I can see what you meant…it looks like it had the potential to be Flame War City. Also a shame, but people are people.

I have a hunch I’m like most readers of most comments, I stick with it until all the stupid name-calling and cutsy-pie unfunny name-twisting gets too cloying, then simply go on with my own life. Readers/commentors of Doonesbury, however, – save for the out-and-out nut cases on both fringes – seem to me to be the best-mannered, most thoughtful, most literate, most well-informed, and generally most rewarding of all those who post anwhere. My compliments to you all…like I said, except for the talking points axe-grinders. But don’t get the Big Head. I’m nuthin’ but a worn out working comedy writer.

The first thing Duke should have BP do is rebrand their stations back to Amoco, which they bought. After all, Amoco was originally “American” and used a red white and blue sign. Get rid of that “British” stuff and the hippie dippy tree-huggin’ green sun.

Of course, in the South BP also bought Gulf, but, perhaps its best not to remind consumers of a BP/Gulf connection right now…

In the northeast and midwest, Cumberland Farms bought the Gulf brand so that the company could hide from its reputation for harassing their own store employees.

I think that consumers would spot the subderfuge right away in a name change, and it would backfire against BP.I personally consider those who boycott BP at present to be the greatest examples of hypocrites of the modern age, but I’d feel differently if the company attempted clever antics to hide that they were still BP. This may be a moot point, since many analysts feel that BP is very ripe for a hostile takeover anyway.

Duke might be shallow enough to suggest a rebrand but I’m pretty sure BP has more sense to do any such thing at this point.

In some of its markets red, white and blue would raise a cheer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Flag (though England is bedecked with Red and White at the moment)

Justice22,

“W got his revenge by beheading Hussein,…..” Actually, I believe Hussein was hanged.

A brief email has been discovered. Dear Tony; Thanks to your efforts, the rest of us are feeling much better. I can even go out in public again. Your friend, Joseph Hazelwood”