Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for October 20, 2008

Dypak said yesterday: Unca Alby - The problem with saying that only the truly intelligent and informed should vote is dangerous. That was the problem in 1776 when only land owning white men could vote. Everyone else was considered to be too poorly educated to vote properly.   There’s a difference here that you are not considering.   On one hand, you have laws that prevent people from voting based on arbitrary considerations. I agree, that’s dangerous, because no matter how hard everybody tries, it will end up being another incumbent-protection policy.   In other words, those currently in power will write the rules such that only those currently in power can elect those in power.   That’s not what I’m talking about, though.   What I’m saying is that people who know they don’t know anything should self-select themselves to not vote. E.g., if you’ve been stuck under a rock for 4 years with no TV, no newspaper, no Internet, no nothing, you should not come out from under your rock just to vote.   Furthermore, we should not encourage people to go vote without knowing what they’re doing. If you find somebody like that kid the strip who has made it known in no uncertain terms that he doesn’t give a rat’s hindquarters, leave him be. We’re better off if he doesn’t vote than if we encourage (or, has been suggested, force) him to vote without a clue.   And like I mentioned earlier, it’s not really a problem with people who decide to educate themselves. Once they go out and learn the issues and do their due diligence, we won’t need to encourage them. They’ll want to vote.   Saying “VOTE! VOTE! VOTE! and btw, go learn something”, is the wrong way about it. If you want to encourage people, encourage them to LEARN SOMETHING FIRST, then go vote.

Dypak said yesterday:

Don’t worry, enough ‘morons’ will vote for both sides that they will cancel each other out.   Unfortunately, that’s not true. Most of the people who vote cluelessly are young people, like the kid in the strip. Most young people vote Democrat.   It’s been said that a conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged. Young people haven’t been mugged yet, so they still believe in fairyland solutions that don’t work in the real world. Such as, for example, Obama’s plan to “lower gasoline prices” by slapping a windfall profits tax on oil companies.

cfortunato said yesterday:

Proposing the disenfranchisement of a significant section of the population is simply an attempt to turn one’s own group into the entrenched elite, although it will never be expressed that way.   As I said to Dypak, I’m saying nothing of the sort.     The uneducated have interests, too.   And just how the heck do they know what those interests are if they’re uneducated?

UncaAlby, i admire that you’re essentially promoting a better educational system in our nation. I support your efforts and i believe we have the same goal in mind: better American citizens.

Sounds like UncaAlby is making claims of being an elightest without sounding like he is trying to be one.You make it sould like growing up poor is a sin..well from someone whom grew up poor…screw you.Have to be mugged to understand what it means to be a republican?Every day with this mortgage crisis I think I understand just a little better….

…thank you,and if this is how rich,smart people run the country,I think I’ll take my chances with us dumb poor folk,thank you very much.

Amazing how you folks presume that there is accurate information available on the candidates. So many of their ‘promises’ of what they will do are obvious lies just from the fact that they promise to do things only Congress has the authority to do. How is voting on lies and propaganda better than flipping a coin?

thedrew sounds bitter.

bagbalm says: So many of their ‘promises’ of what they will do are obvious lies just from the fact that they promise to do things only Congress has the authority to do. How is voting on lies and propaganda better than flipping a coin?   When a candidate is promising something that you KNOW he can NOT deliver, that’s something you should take into consideration. Either the candidate is lying or is stupid or both or thinks you’re stupid.   Franky, it’s my opinion that the candidates think we’re all stupid, and since we always re-elect the same gaggle of crooks every election, they might just be right.

UncaAlby, there ARE parties other than Republican and Democrat for which one can vote, even if such a vote resembles, in its inutility, a faint cry for help from a puppy abandoned in a desolate wilderness. Frankly, regardless of the temptingly attractive claims from the various candidates, I advise taking anything said during a campaign with a pillar of salt, and voting for the ones who tell the verifiable truth the most often. Silly, I know, but that’s just me.

ronebofh, Thank you. But I want more than merely having better American citizens – I want American citizens to have a better government.   Unfortunately, we tend to get the government we deserve.

Roger, but not THAT one, the other one. says:

UncaAlby, there ARE parties other than Republican and Democrat for which one can vote,   Yes, that’s true – of particular note are the Greens and the Libertarians – the Greens being openly socialist and doe-eyed in their naivete – the Libertarians merely naive. The Constitution Party, the American Independent Party, etc., are more like watered down versions of the Big Two.     even if such a vote resembles, in its inutility, a faint cry for help from a puppy abandoned in a desolate wilderness.   Oy, your imagery!   You might be surprised how successful a political party can be, without ever once winning an actual election; if you consider it more important to get your policies implemented than to actually win the election. For example, nearly every plank from the Socialist Party platform of 1928 has been written into law in one form or another. As should be obvious to any observer with his eyes open, the nation is moving towards Socialism, this recent spate of bailouts being just the more recent and blatant examples.   So, you might say that although the Socialists have lost every battle, they’re winning the war.

UncaAlby says: Oy, your imagery!

we all have our strengths.

Saddly the part about winning an election is jsut as acurate as the rest of Unca’s statement. I think the last time a thrid partty candidate won the big chair was like when the folks wareing Wigs called them selves of all things the Wig Party. An BTW Unca we must like many of the same comics =) cuz of all the other folks that coment on Pibgorn, I likely see you comenting on the others I read more then any other.

ozzimandius, I can’t help but think, somehow, that your research into the politicians and the political platform of the Whig party might be incomplete.

Susan001 says:

So, now the clouds part! UncleAlby is stumping for McCain/Palin!   I’m not stumping for anybody – but if it you makes you feel any better, you are correct that I am not voting for Obama.     Maybe he’s a paid lobbyist?   Why? What makes you think only a paid lobbyist can express views counter to yours? If you think your point of view is so sacrosanct, why don’t you try countering my statements with facts instead of accusations?     GoComics, get this troll of your boards!   So the 1st Amendment is reserved for Democrats Only? Come now, if you want to shut me up, you’re going to have to do a lot better than that.

UncaAlby - read one of your posts: “Unfortunately, that’s not true. Most of the people who vote cluelessly are young people, like the kid in the strip. Most young people vote Democrat.

It’s been said that a conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged. Young people haven’t been mugged yet, so they still believe in fairyland solutions that don’t work in the real world. Such as, for example, Obama’s plan to “lower gasoline prices” by slapping a windfall profits tax on oil companies.”

I’m not young. Not going to tell you how old I am, but I will tell you that I am well over 50. I vote Democrat. I don’t pull a straight ticket like some of my less intelligent Republican friends, though.

I’ve been mugged…by Republicans, many times. I think your broad general dismissal of young people is ignorant, to be polite.

And btw, Obama was not advocating a windfall profits tax to reduce the price of gas. Last year, ExxonMobile realized a 300% profit. The highest profit reported by a corporation in the history of this country. Yes, they should have had a windfall profits tax. Also, the reason we are able to say ExxonMobile is because your good ole bud, Regan, gutted the monopoly laws. Yeah, the Republicans have done GREAT things to, oh, uh, I mean, for our country.

somewhereintime says: I am well over 50. I vote Democrat.   Which is irrelevant to my statement, but Ok, thanks for sharing.   I don’t pull a straight ticket like some of my less intelligent Republican friends, though.   So grand of you to be smarter than your stupid Republican friends. I suppose it would never occur to you that very few smart Republicans pull a straight ticket like some of their less intelligent Democrat friends.   Oh, and btw, kindly note that your circle of friends is an insufficient sample size to draw any conclusions from, except perhaps that you like to hang around with stupid Republicans.   I think your broad general dismissal of young people is ignorant, to be polite.   No, it’s based on various statistics and exit polls, but thank you for being polite.   And btw, Obama was not advocating a windfall profits tax to reduce the price of gas. Last year, ExxonMobile realized a 300% profit. The highest profit reported by a corporation in the history of this country. Yes, they should have had a windfall profits tax.   Then you admit the only reason for such a tax is to punish oil companies for being successful? Because it will make the price of gasoline go up, since all they’re going to do is pass the costs on to the consumer.   And since when in America is it a crime to make a profit? Oh yah, since the Democrats took Congress.   If ExxonMobile were to voluntarily slash their profits to ZERO, the price of gasoline would drop maybe 10 cents/gallon. In the meantime, we pay 18 cents/gallon in federal taxes, plus additional state and local taxes.   Also, the reason we are able to say ExxonMobile is because your good ole bud, Regan, gutted the monopoly laws.   Oh, so you’re saying the ExxonMobile is a monopoly? What happened to ChevronTexaco, Union 76, Arco? Did they move out of the country for a friendlier regulatory environment? Which monopoly laws did Reagan gut? Obviously not the ones they used to go after Microsoft.

somewhereintime says: “Last year, ExxonMobile realized a 300% profit. ”

No they didn’t. Proftis were 9.31% for the first quarter of 2008, and for 2007 they were 10.03% for the year.

it is a crime, by definition, to post a profit by doing something illegally. it is unethical to post a profit by exploiting others. it is stupid to make a profit by gouging those people you rely on to make that profit (your workers and consumers). if we all took less there would be more to go around. that doesn’t seem niave to me. i think people are blind when they don’t see that hurting others hurts themselves. doesn’t that seem obvious?

Susan001 says:

UncleAlby accused me of saying that anyone who doesn’t agree with me has no right to post a message.   A valid accusation. You called me a “troll” and asked GoComics to “get me of [sic] the board.” Why? Because you disagree with me? Because you are unable to argue with facts and logic, so you must silence the opposition?     But isn’t that what he’s been doing all along? He’s been making it clear that only “educated” people have the right to vote,   I said nothing of the kind. I even went out of my way to further explain how what I’m saying has got nothing to do with removing anyone’s right to vote. I’m going to go out on a limb here, and make the accusation that you apparently have NO reading comprehension.     and “educated” people vote Republican.   Now you’re projecting. I never said that either. I might be tempted to say that stupid people vote Democrat, but I won’t. Nor will I claim that Republicans are smarter than Democrats.     And if anyone DARES to disagree, even with facts counter to his own,   Oh? Like which ones, specifically? You’ve certainly brought nothing factual to this discussion.     he gets defensive, screaming, “First Amendment!”   To perfectly candid, the First Amendment has nothing to do with it. This is a private forum owned by private citizens who can allow or disallow anyone based on any criteria they choose, within limits of the law.   So it would be more accurate to “scream” that you apparently believe that GoComics is an extension of the DNC and that any opinion that goes against their anointed “Messiah” is to be removed.   And that–dear posters–is the definition of “troll”.   So be it. Take your case to GoComics. We’ll see whether or not they’re an extension of the DNC. There’s a little green flag next to all my postings, and all of you are welcome to go hit each one.

Susan001 says:

I’m sick of arguing with this person.   Then by all means, stop.   Please, people, don’t be intimidated; voting is the right of EVERY American citizen, educated or not. And nobody, not even UncleAlby, can tell you otherwise.   Hear hear.   Oh yeah, he’ll become defensive again (“That’s NOT what I said.”).   I’ll leave it to the readers to locate the place where I did say anything like that, presuming most of them to have the reading comprehension greater than that of of a six-year-old, or at least greater than Susan’s.   Just pay him no mind; exercise your right to vote.   JUST LEARN THE ISSUES FIRST If you don’t have the time or initiative to learn the issues, what the candidates say, what the candidates have done, then please, do us all a favor: don’t go into the voting booth and flip a coin; don’t vote for the fellow with a nice smile; don’t for the first black president or the first female vice-president – VOTE RESPONSIBLY or don’t vote.

UncaAlby said:

“And just how the heck do they know what those interests are if they’re uneducated???”

Uneducated does not mean unintelligent! Of course they have interests.

peterkeenan says:

*UncaAlby said:

“And just how the heck do they know what those interests are if they’re uneducated???”

Uneducated does not mean unintelligent! Of course they have interests.   Of course these two words don’t mean the same thing! That’s why they’re two words!   It’s like the examples I’ve already used. I don’t care if you’re Einstein incarnate, with an IQ in 4 digits. That doesn’t mean you’re educated on the issues.   So please, stop putting words into my mouth then argue against things I didn’t say.   So I’ll re-iterate – if you are uneducated on the issues, how the heck do you know what they are? I should have thought that would be obvious on the face of it. It doesn’t mean you’re stupid, it doesn’t mean you can’t calculate orbital mechanics to 7 decimal places in your head – it just means exactly what it says – you are uneducated because you don’t know the issues.   And I’ll re-iterate again – if you are uneducated on the issues, you should not vote.   And one more time, since this keeps coming up – no where am I suggesting we take away anybody’s right to vote.   I’m just saying, if you’re not going to vote responsibly, then you should not vote. Further, you should not encourage people to vote irresponsibly.

I apologize if people took my comments irt “uneducated” as to mean “unintelligent.” That’s not what I said and it’s not what I meant. I thought I clarified that with the examples I gave. So if it helps avoid confusion, in the future I’ll say uneducated on the issues.

Aww, UncaAlby. You were so sweet to respond to my post.

Let’s not digress to the “s” word. How about sublevel intellect? And when you say “s” Republican, you are being redundant. When you know that you can stamp Republican on an ape’s head and certain Republicans will vote for it, that’s a problem. Oh, ooops…you already did that!

It was the gutted monopoly laws that allowed the Hearst Corporation to buy up the largest paper producer. They then raised their prices to a ridiculous level and put the Dallas Times Herald and the Houston Post out of business.

Alby, you astound me. Anyone who can vote for a doddering old fool with all the signs of the onset of Alzheimers and an aging beauty queen and still pontificate on politics and the economy…all I can say is that sublevel intellect knows no bounds.

Ah, good, somewhereintime, so sweet indeed. Demonstrating your complete and under absence of any knowlege whatsoever in immediately dropping into ad homenim.   This illustrates for everyone that you have no argument.   If you’re the best Democrats have to offer, it’s no wonder the nation is such a mess.   This happened faster than I expected. Shot your wad so soon did you? Well I’m sure you can go back to the DNC for more talking points, and they’ll fill you up for your next volley.

somewhereintime says: “Last year, ExxonMobile realized a 300% profit. ”

How is that even possible?? The most profit that can be made in any endeavor is 100%, assuming you have zero overhead. I assume you just made that figure up.

kansas778 says: “No they didn’t. Profits were 9.31% for the first quarter of 2008, and for 2007 they were 10.03% for the year.”

This sounds far more tangible and is a BELOW AVERAGE margin for a successful business. Their accountants are probably screaming. The higher the margin, the more likely a company will be able to withstand volatile market conditions. Oil companies have ridiculously high overheads, constantly having to address nuisance environmental lawsuits every time they attempt to provide this country with what the market demands.

Let’s see if I can get the following novel concept to stick to your feeble little liberal minds:

OIL IS NOT EVIL! It is a natural resource in abundant supply. It not only runs our transportation systems, but is the key ingredient in most forms of manufacturing. Being the core material in plastics, it is indispensable in the medical field and in creating sanitary, tamper-proof packaging in foods. As a hydrocarbon matrix, oil and its refined derivatives are terrific energy storage devices. They are safe and non-volatile (billions of automobiles in use world-wide for over a hundred years and an exploding gas tank or gas-station fire is still newsworthy). It sits around until an infinitesimal amount is mixed with air and compressed and ignited to move a two ton vehicle a substantial distance. It is so efficient that we accept that most of that energy is wasted as heat. The resultant catalyzed exhaust gasses are virtually harmless unless you believe that CARBON IS A POLLUTANT!

NOT! Carbon is one of the most abundant elements on earth and is being exhaled by billions of mammals worldwide on a constant basis. There are trillions of other carbon based organisms, most of which which have annual life cycles and emit zillions of tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere as they decompose. It’s NATURAL. You silly libs like nature, right? If you believe that global warming is predominantly a function of internal combustion, then you’re not much of a critical thinker, scientifically speaking.

Eliminate oil and the rioting starts on day 2 and billions of people die in short order, but that should make you zero-population-growth types ecstatic.

Sounds like Zonk didn’t understand what was said and reacted to his insecurity by responding as though the question was meant to catch him off guard. Which he usually is and doesn’t have a clue.

Susan001 says:

Ha, ha! The more UncleArby posts, the more he shoots himself in the foot! I wonder if he can still walk! LOL Let’s see what his blather will be on tomorrow’s posts.   There, see? And you wanted to get rid of me! Think of all the entertainment you’d miss!     Oh, btw, how’s it going with flagging all my posts? Any reply from GoComics about purging the board of these nasty offensive Republicans? Just FYI, I haven’t heard anything from them yet, no notes, no warnings, no “cease and desist” orders, so I guess as far as they’re concerned, I’m still welcome.

Radical-Knight says:

Sounds like Zonk didn’t understand what was said and reacted to his insecurity by responding as though the question was meant to catch him off guard. Which he usually is and doesn’t have a clue.   No, Trudeau is responding to McCain complaining about the media always asking “Gotcha”-type questions to him and Palin. Essentially, he’s saying a question is a question, and you’re supposed to answer it in any event to keep any sort of credibility.   Of course, Trudeau is not going to address the issue of the media’s failure to ask “gotcha” questions of the Democrat candidates, but that’s neither here nor there. Besides, if he did, the strip wouldn’t be funny anymore. Less “biting satire.”

Ah..but one could not help but attack your character and should you explain to the rabble…ad homenim? Attacking an opponent’s character rather than answering the argument.

Well, well, now..are you an elitist? I always admired Buckley and Saffire…you do know them, right?

Unca whatever…in response to what you said to Radical-Knight:

It’s really fortunate that people like you won’t determine the future of this country. Did you NOT get the part of my last message that said that you Republicans voted for an ape???? AKA Geo “W” Bush???????

somewhereintime says:

Did you NOT get the part of my last message that said that you Republicans voted for an ape???? AKA Geo “W” Bush???????   Of course. You have nothing of substance to say, so you resort to insults. Yes, I got it.     Or – wait a second – are you trying to say that the RNC pulled a fast one on the entire country, and actually put a literal, biological, APE in the white-house? Without anybody (‘cept you of course) being the wiser? In other words, no, you’re not insulting the President of these United States, you’re just trying to point out some facts about the – primate – in office?   Interesting. Tell me, how long have you been harboring these paranoid delusions, and are you taking any medications for it?

somewhereintime says:

Ah..but one could not help but attack your character   Yes I know. My character, me, a person you’ve never met, know nothing about, but happen to challenge some of your cherished beliefs, is certainly worthy of every character assassination you can think of. Shut me up any way you can, lest I force you to engage your brain.   That’s Ok, I have a pretty thick skin. Attack away.

UncaAlby: I see what you’re saying and it is funnier that way. The twists that some people like Trudeau and Mr.McE put into their “strips” sometimes fly right past me before I stop and think deeper into the substance.

Good call, be seeing you.

Radical-Knight Back off. This guy “Unca” is a freakin nut case. Don’t defend him and don’t try to communicate with him.

My verbal jousting with him is dangerous enough. He may come out of the woodwork any day and God help us all.