Article VI: “but no religious test shall EVER be required as a Qualification to ANY Office or PUBLIC TRUST under the United States”. That means federal, state, or local, period.
BTW: “So help me God”, is NOT in the oath of office for President, Washington added it on his own, and the Chief Justice should therefore NOT say it, in swearing in a new President. NO member of the military, or public service should likewise be required to state this religious “test”, for authenticity.
Never joined VFW because their application asks you to swear that you believe in the God of Abraham. As a Buddhist, I couldn’t legitimately sign that. Which, it’s tiresome to keep hearing that if you don’t ascribe to the bible myth you have no faith, or are an atheist. The bible does contain some positive lessons, also some violently POOR lessons when taken literally, the wisdom as in other things, is in recognizing the difference!
“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.”—Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Danbury Baptist Association
Anyone is free to express their views. Pro, Con, whatever…
The state may not fund, support, or in any way present the view that a/any religion is preferred.
For example: A politician or citizen can make a speech all about how their religion affects an issue. Any bill to fund someone making speeches on this point is unconstitutional.
I would agree to a theist government only if it were my religion and my understanding of god, etc..Would you be willing to live under my Religious Rules?.I know I certainly don’t want to live under the religious rules of many other religions.
You are utterly incorrect.“The civil government … functions with complete success … by the total separation of the Church from the State.”~James Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by John Adams“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”~Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, 1802“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”~Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”~Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”~Thomas Jefferson: in a speech to the Virginia Baptists (1808)“And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”~James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822 “Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history.”~James Madison; Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, Ecclesiastical Endowments “When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil power, it’s a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”~Benjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780
“The purpose of the separation of church and state, a phrase that is NOT in the constitution, is to keep the state from establishing an official religion.”
Correct. Therefore it follows that if a government official invokes a deity with a prayer at a public function, he or she is violating the establishment clause of the First Amendment. This is BOTH freedom of and freedom from religion. As you say, the state is not allowed to discriminate. And to the members of the ever-more-willing-to-demonstrate-idiocy Supreme Court, I’ll use your words again:
“If you don’t get that, then you need some remedial lessons in civics.”
While separation of church and state is not a phrase found in the constitution, freedom of religion is found in the 1st amendment. Courts have ruled over the years that freedom of religion also implies freedom from religion. As a citizen of the USA, if I don’t want to be inundated with prayers, hymns, statues whatever depicting some god or saint or whatever, I can legally be spared that in public, government settings. That is the concept by which prayer and other such religious activities are prevented from being displayed in public by any government entity.
Yes. Somehow what we all believe is bad in Iran is fine here? A lot of conservatives have a real problem with seeing issues from other people’s perspective.
Do as Jesus mandated, and worship in privacy, or in a synagogue or temple of your choice, not in a government building, in public, like the hypocrites do.
Dtroutma about 10 years ago
Article VI: “but no religious test shall EVER be required as a Qualification to ANY Office or PUBLIC TRUST under the United States”. That means federal, state, or local, period.
BTW: “So help me God”, is NOT in the oath of office for President, Washington added it on his own, and the Chief Justice should therefore NOT say it, in swearing in a new President. NO member of the military, or public service should likewise be required to state this religious “test”, for authenticity.
Never joined VFW because their application asks you to swear that you believe in the God of Abraham. As a Buddhist, I couldn’t legitimately sign that. Which, it’s tiresome to keep hearing that if you don’t ascribe to the bible myth you have no faith, or are an atheist. The bible does contain some positive lessons, also some violently POOR lessons when taken literally, the wisdom as in other things, is in recognizing the difference!
Jason Allen about 10 years ago
“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.”—Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Danbury Baptist Association
moosemin about 10 years ago
Very well said! And that IS the way our Constitution and Bill of Rights authors meant!
Redbear987 about 10 years ago
It’s really very simple folks:
Anyone is free to express their views. Pro, Con, whatever…
The state may not fund, support, or in any way present the view that a/any religion is preferred.
For example: A politician or citizen can make a speech all about how their religion affects an issue. Any bill to fund someone making speeches on this point is unconstitutional.
cjr53 about 10 years ago
I would agree to a theist government only if it were my religion and my understanding of god, etc..Would you be willing to live under my Religious Rules?.I know I certainly don’t want to live under the religious rules of many other religions.
Motivemagus about 10 years ago
You are utterly incorrect.“The civil government … functions with complete success … by the total separation of the Church from the State.”~James Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by John Adams“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”~Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, 1802“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”~Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”~Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”~Thomas Jefferson: in a speech to the Virginia Baptists (1808)“And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”~James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822 “Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history.”~James Madison; Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, Ecclesiastical Endowments “When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil power, it’s a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”~Benjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780
Simon_Jester about 10 years ago
You know, if that’s true, it also means there’s no reason why the Government can’t levy TAXES on churches an/or religious organizations
I Play One On TV about 10 years ago
“The purpose of the separation of church and state, a phrase that is NOT in the constitution, is to keep the state from establishing an official religion.”
Correct. Therefore it follows that if a government official invokes a deity with a prayer at a public function, he or she is violating the establishment clause of the First Amendment. This is BOTH freedom of and freedom from religion. As you say, the state is not allowed to discriminate. And to the members of the ever-more-willing-to-demonstrate-idiocy Supreme Court, I’ll use your words again:
“If you don’t get that, then you need some remedial lessons in civics.”
JPTewel about 10 years ago
While separation of church and state is not a phrase found in the constitution, freedom of religion is found in the 1st amendment. Courts have ruled over the years that freedom of religion also implies freedom from religion. As a citizen of the USA, if I don’t want to be inundated with prayers, hymns, statues whatever depicting some god or saint or whatever, I can legally be spared that in public, government settings. That is the concept by which prayer and other such religious activities are prevented from being displayed in public by any government entity.
ARodney about 10 years ago
Yes. Somehow what we all believe is bad in Iran is fine here? A lot of conservatives have a real problem with seeing issues from other people’s perspective.
Dtroutma about 10 years ago
Do as Jesus mandated, and worship in privacy, or in a synagogue or temple of your choice, not in a government building, in public, like the hypocrites do.
KZ71 about 10 years ago
Thank you Molon Labe and zippy for bringing out the truth. God bless.