Pat Oliphant for March 24, 2010

So very, very, true- and after all the folks screaming “anti-Semite” at anyone critical of horrible leadership in that country that ignores THEIR OWN people, it’s about time. Now to recognize the reality of the Bush/Cheney administration?

You sure that’s not Joe Lieberman in the black suit?

thanks, Oliphant. I like the “thinking Jew.”

As a Jew I protest the rockets fired by Hamas at civilians in Israel, I protest the hit squads of suicide bombers sent out by Hamas to set off bombs to kill men, women and children and I protest the PLO’s and Hamas’ arrogant disregard for world opinion in not recognizing Israel as a country that has a right to exist. I protest the ensalvement of women and blacks and disregard of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. A thinking Jew has to see both sides of the coin, unless of course he doesn’t want to.

i think israel has betrayed a misguided friendship

seems like we are dawdling on cutting the apron strings. we certainly are not mandated to protect “god’s chosen people”

god will deal with israel as he has always dealt with his wayward kids if we just stop getting in the way - i say stop bankrolling them

Since the day Israel was recognized as an independent country by the UN it has been under attack. From 1948 until 1967 Israel lived in the pre-1967 borders and the Arab world was not happy. In 1948 Egypt, Jordan and Syria told the Arabs living in Israel to leave and they will be able to return after all the Jews were pushed into the sea. It didn’t happen so the displaced Arabs remained where they were, mostly disregarded by their Arab brothers. The hundreds of thousands of Jews who had lived for hundreds of years in Arab countries were thrown out and stripped of all their possessions. But Israel accepted them with open arms.

Where was the PLO when Jordan was in control of the West Bank from 1948-1967 and the Palestinians did not have their own country. In fact, Jordan was supposed to be the Palestinian State when the area was under the British mandate, but the Palestinians were denied a state by their own brothers. Then in 1948, what was supposed to be the Jewish homeland was further split by the UN with a good part given to the Palestinians. But the Arabs want the Middle East to be Judenrein so no matter how small Israel is, it will never be small enough.

Israel gave back Gaza and instead of building up the economy, Hamas has destroyed it and uses it as a base for attacks on Israel, shooting rockets from populated areas knowing Arab civilians in Gaza will be bombed by Israel in response. For two years Israel did not respond and the attacks grew fiercer. What would you do if your neighbor continuously shot into your home when your family was present and the police did nothing or were unable to stop it?

Israel was ready to hand over 90% of the West Bank to Arafat but instead he started an intifada in 2000. He was afraid to end up like Anwar Sadat. It is amazing that the right wing hardliners in Israel are the ones ready to give up land for peace but Arab leader seems to be brave enough to take the offer.

BTW, you probably didn’t notice as the biased press didn’t pay attention to it but during Biden’s visit a square in El Bireh was named in honor of the terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who killed in cold blood 38 Israeli civilians and American photographer Gail Rubin who was taking pictures of birds on a beach in Israel when Mughrabi’s team landed by boat. Is that not an insult to the peace process?

brooklyn, You can’t just rewrite the history as you like..because the world knows the facts as they really are ,the story of a land who was occupied by the British after WWI ,who brought European jews to settle in ,without any regard to the people who origionally live there ..then with the American support it became what it is now..and now it able to insult America and its leaders.. Israel is strange to the region and it will remain strange until it stops denying the rights of the Plestinian people..

brooklyn, I’d be interested to see your reaction to this, which I found most interesting as regards the ancient and modern history of Israel: http://tinyurl.com/ykh7exw Since Israel continues to cite religious reasons for their government (just like Iran, eh?), it’s worth looking at the actual history. In brief, Cole asserts that the Jewish people have occupied Jerusalem for a remarkably small part of history, and the people who have been there the longest have been Muslim.

Palestino said ”…because the world knows the facts as they really are…”

I’m afraid this is where you’re wrong, Palestino, most folks, at least in the West, don’t know the history of the region prior to the 1917 Balfour declaration, the period as a British mandate running up to 1948, and the period shortly thereafter. I think ignorance of this period has been your peoples’ undoing. If you could educate more people of this period, the case for a Palestinian homeland would be made more clearly. You need better PR.

For every website stating East Jerusalem is not Israel’s, there’s a website arguing the opposite (http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf1967to1991territoriesoccupiedor_not.php)

Just because archeology has not found something doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. King David established his rule in Jerusalem over 3,000 years ago. This is my belief even if there is no physical proof (though I continually read about new finds in excavations in the area just outside the Old City where it is believed that King David actually lived).

If the Waqf would stop destroying the underground of the temple area and throwing it in a garbage dump, they might be forced to see for themselves the truth of what was once there. Since King David’s time and on Jerusalem has been the holiest city to the Jewish people and only when they were forcibly evicted, was there no Jewish presence there. As soon as the ruling powers allowed, Jews returned to live there in some number. In truth, Jerusalem had great significance for the Jewish people even before King David’s time as the Temple Mount is where Abraham was tested with sacrificing Issac and where Jacob slept and had his dream of the ladder rising to heaven. of course. This is all religious belief and may not be accepted by everyone. But it all happened way before Christianity and Islam were founded.

As far as Britain bringing Jews to Israel without regard to the people who were originally there, the Jewish people have always been there for 3,000+ years except when excluded by force. Please note that the Jewish people never excluded anyone from any nation to enter Jerusalem, unlike what happened most recently between 1948 and 1967. Nor do they desecrate the churches and mosques of other religions though this has been done to them throughout the centuries.

The only way peace will come is when direct talks are made between Israel and the Palestinians without the US or any other getting in the way. Israel is ready to create a Palestinian state but since day one the Arab world has not recognized Israel and continually tries to destroy it.

Check out history - you go against Israel and slowly but surely you are going to fail. Israel is the only country I’ve heard of that phones and drops leaflets saying when and where they will attack, unlike Hamas who use civilians and shields and then attacks Israeli women and children indiscriminately. Liberal news stations never comment on the number of shells lobbed at Israel. Israel belongs to the Jewish people and if they want to build apartments, then leave them alone and let them build.

brooklyn has a thoughtful commentary to consider. I confess my knowledge of contemporary history is not as infomred as I would like. Good post to consider.

whole, So you want us to say thank you to Israel because it informed us before it killed us?? It is then not polite of the 600 children and women who were slautered on Gaza not to be greatful..

brooklyn, If Israel is good at protecting holy places then why is it digging tunnels under the Aqsa mosque in jerusalem?and why are Palestinians not allowed to inter jerusalem? and what happened to thousands of mosques and churches in the cities and villages ethnicly cleansed from Palestinians in 1948?why were they distroyed despite their religious and historical value?

“From 1948 until 1967 Israel lived in the pre-1967 borders …”

Thanks Captain Obvious! :-p

Israel has a right to attack those who attack it. The leaflets were to warn the civilians (and terrorists BTW) where they were going to attack so that they get out of the area.

Digging tunnels under the Asqa mosque is a pure lie. It is the Waqf who is digging underground without permission and destroying invaluable history.

Palestinians can enter Jerusalem except when all they want to do is throw rocks on Jews praying at the Western Wall. Israel gave the Temple Mount back to the Arabs after they defeated the Jordanians in 1967 when they were attacked. Who else would have done such a thing? Everyone else would have kept their spoils of war from self defense.

What “thousands” of mosques and churches are you talking about? Again all you have are lies to spread because the truth that Israel did not ethnically cleanse anyone but begged the Arabs living in Israel to stay in 1948 when they were ordered out by Jordan, Egypt and Syria who were going to wipe Israel off the map.

My point of Israel living in the pre-1967 borders from 1948 until 1967 was to show that the demand by the Arab world to return to the 1967 borders is just an excuse because even when Israel did not have those borders, the Arabs world wanted Israel destroyed. there are no borders small enough to satisfy the Arab world.

Thank you believecommonsense for your comment. Yes, there are too many lies going around in the Middle east and only the truth is worth discussing.

Yes, Israel is built on lies since day1.

sigh

Although I insist one reads up on the region’s history, I should point out there are clearly a few versions of this history. A truly impartial version is going to be difficult to find and therefore “truth” is relative.

I can say though, that between Britain & France who held mandates in the area immediately after the 1st WW, they really didn’t care too much how the region was partitioned so long as their own interests were safe-guarded: oil interests and rewarding their WW allies. The problem was that too much was promised to too many. Carving up the territories very much in the same way they had done elsewhere in their colonial pursuits, not much thought was given to “natural” boundaries, linguistic, cultural or physical. Just spheres of European influence and natural resources. So, we at least can blame these silly, self-centred European powers for the screw-up. But where does this leave the Palestinians who suffered a Naqba in the ‘48 war? And one must also state that there was a reciprocal resettlement of Jews in a similar number (700-800 thousand each ) from Arab lands in a similar Naqba. Except they have fared better. In 1919 there had already been expectations of inevitable conflict between Arabs & Jews as folks jostled for position as promises and unrealistic deals were made. A few massacres, riots back & forth (and a European Holocaust) and we get to the 2nd WW’s aftermath with much antagonism still very present between both communities. The Palestinians themselves became the most vulnerable as their territory was bartered behind closed secret doors even between Syria, what had become Jordan and would-be Israel! I don’t think the Palestinians themselves were ever masters of their own fate as Arab states, European powers and eventually Israelis pretty much decide what happens or doesn’t happen to them.

omQ R,

You are totally right ,but note that Arab jews didn’t have a “similar naqba” ,they were simply brought by the zionist project to Palesine in the same way jews from the four corners of the world were brought. they were never forced to leave. historic evedince show that the zionist leadership sent its men to bomb sinagogs in Arab countries in order to spark fear in jewish communities and make them depart to Palestine.

^ Can you provide sources or impartial evidence that this occured?

Most of the sites on the web that talk about this are in Arabic for example there is “almoslim.net” talks about the history of the jews in Iraq and the role of the zionist movement in the bombing of april 1950..I’ll try to find sites in English soon..

^ Much appreciated, my Arabic is about as good as my Greek. :-|

Please check this out http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/php/art.php?aid=462

Sure, Jews have nothing better to do than intentionally kill other Jews.

In 1948 between 800,000 and 1,000,000 Jews living in many Arab countries were FORCED to leave despite the fact they they had lived there for hundreds and hundreds of years. All their money and property were confiscated and it amounted to quite a significant sum. No one seems to care much about that, after all it was only Jews.

A note from Wilipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JewishexodusfromArablands): The Arab world consists of 22 countries in which Arabic is the main language. In those countries North of the Sahara a Jewish presence dates back to the Babylonian captivity in the 6th century BCE and, outside of Arabia, PREDATES (my emphasis) the Arab presence by a thousand years.

And of course the bombing of the WTC was also a Zionist plot to scare American Jews into leaving America.

The bottom line is that almost the entire Arab world does not want Jews to have their own independent state in the Middle East. Until this changes, no amount of land or concessions that Israel makes will make any Arab country happy. There is no desire for peace with Israel, only its destruction. The statements by the PLO are two faced - to the Arab world they speak of the destruction of Israel but to the European and American audience they put on a face of peace.

Here’s a better source of the truth - http://www.camera.org/

There are also 20 Spanish language countries in the world ,why dont you invade Spain or mexico and let its people go to Argentina and the other Spanish language states?

Thanks for the links, Palestino & brooklynrudy, however, after doing a bit of background research on both, I found both are partisan. As such, one has to bear in mind their founders’ intentions while reading their articles. It is quite difficult to find an impartial view and I accept that.

Just a quick glance through Camera’s website and I can see why it is controversial. On its “latest” today, it hammers writers from a newspaper I often read, Ha’aretz as well as the NY Times, LA Times, hmmm…

The University of Cork’s website has the following: ”We give you documents from all points on the ideological spectrum, both Zionist and anti-Zionist. We give you background on everybody whose opinion you find here. We also let you see what these people/organizations say about each other.” Hmmm, but it is openly a Palestinian Solidarity organisation but will its articles reveal the pros & cons of both sides of the conflict? Bears some looking through.

May I suggest to you both the following source: The MidEast Web Gateway