Since the tree has NOTHING to do with Christ, since people used them in pre-Christian societies, and since MANY non-Christians have them to this day, Holiday Tree is far more appropriate. But worse by far for Christianity than people calling it a Holiday Tree is thin-skinned Christians getting bent out of shape about it! You do our faith a true disservice.
And if the Pilgrim’s beliefs had prevailed, we’d have had none of the Christmas hoopla in the first place. They knew that Christ’s birthday was not in December and that pagan holidays had been usurped as a cover in the early days of Christianity. They expressly forbade anyone from celebrating Christmas, insisted that everyone work as if it were a regular day (unless it happened to land on Sunday which was holy), and FINED anyone who was caught celebrating. This is part of why they were called the Puritans – they wanted a PURE Christianity without it being sullied with all the pagan practices – trees, lights, gifts, eggs, bunnies, etc.
In fact, they were the originators of the so-called “War on Christmas.” Learn some real history, please.
It’s not a “Yule-tree”, PixieJane. Though the origins of the Xmas tree are unrecorded, the most likely origin is from the Medieval Mystery Play. Around Christmas-time, the Mystery Play of Adam and Eve would be put on. The main prop for the play was the tree (of the knowledge of good & evil). Because of that, people always would associate that tree prop with Christmas. Even after the Mystery Plays faded away, that tree still remained associated with Christmas! And that’s why people still put up decorated trees in their homes for Christmas.
I for one find it offensive when people try to be politically correct by substituting “Happy Holidays” for “Merry Christmas”. If people do it to avoid offending people, they should be aware that they are also offending an awful lot of people when they say “Happy Holidays”!
The few Jewish, Muslim, Bhuddist and Shik people I know always say “Merry Christmas” when they meet someone they know is a Christian. Granted, they are all church leaders who believe in faiths working together.
Religion gets complicated sometimes, because beliefs are intertwined with traditions. And some traditions are intertwined with our memories of childhood. Christmas, in particular, is full of beliefs, traditions, and fond memories of our childhoods, so it has a strong tie to our emotions. Therefore, it can be very difficult for us to see Christmas traditions change over time and become different from the way we remember them from when we were growing up.For many Christians, changing traditions create a tension between the church and the secular world. But they also create tensions within the church — for example, as the language of the Bible evolves away from the King James toward modern English.Even for Christians who believe that Christmas traditions need to evolve as our world becomes more multicultural, there can still be an emotional feeling of loss at Christmas — for example, hearing only secular winter songs played at the mall, when they remember hearing religious Christmas carols as children as they were doing Christmas shopping with their parents.Now, back to our regularly scheduled program, on the vicarious lives of parents………….
I don’t mind calling it “Krissmass” as a secular label! I can even tolerate the christian religion based carols for a few weeks with appreciation for the music if not the lyric content. But there’s no doubt it’s a purloined holiday – the Saturnalia!
WHAT DOES ALL THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE COMIC????I really enjoy-ed the comic. Calvin is great and Dad are great in this.@SUSAN NEWMAN – I know that’s not true. We get a lot from you here.
I’m a “fundie” (no need to make it insulting ) and I totally agree with you. “Christmas” is a pagan holiday made over by Roman Catholics so they could give the commoners their old holidays and make them “christian” at the same time. If you ask me we should let them have “christmas” It was theirs to begin with, and the celebration as a whole isn’t exactly Biblical. :)
It is amazing how many people know Xmas is pagan, but still celebrate it. Many commenters correctly state the reason why: what it means to them now and how much they enjoy the season. The only problem with that outlook is that it doesn’t consider what God thinks of it. We might approve of it, but does He? And just because we enjoy it, does that mean He has to? See 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. No doubt, He does love joy, peace, kindness, goodwill, but all those can be enjoyed daily without the pagan trappings, don’t you think?
@Vonne Anton: Christians in the liturgical churches follow a yearly calendar that includes Christmas, Epiphany (the coming of the Wise Men), Easter, the Ascension, Pentecost (the coming of the Holy Spirit), and so on, assigned to particular days during the church year. While the churches recognize that these are not necessarily the actual days that the historical events took place, they are following very old traditions and it enhances their worship, which they believe is pleasing to God. They do not believe that God is offended by their choice of the particular days of the calendar for celebrating these events, even if those days coincide with oher secular celebrations.
C&H is a politics and rant free zone. Please let us enjoy the humor and wit of this precocious 6 year old and put your diatribes on Doonesbury or an editorial cartoon.
I refuse to go along with the lies that this “holiday” season is based on. Another thing, this is not a ‘holy day" (but that’s beside the point). Let people (and corporations) take the meaning out of “Christmas”. The only meaning it has is based on lies and “the traditions of men”. “Reason for the season” my backside. I used to think the season was being polluted by commerce and paganism. Then I realized that there is nothing there to pollute in the first place. “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Holiday”? Makes no nevermind to me.
How can one take Christ out of Christmas when he was never there in the first place?
And then there is the Santa thing. We tell children about a being we don’t see, who gives us good things if we are good. They grow up and realize they have been lied to, and then we wonder why they have a difficult time believing in the God we tell them about.
parents, don’t live your lives through your kids. if they don’t want to play baseball, so what. or, don’t be upset if they want to follow in your footsteps.
I am sorry my comment was offensive to some. Hobbes made the point more tactfully: people celebrate a holiday at their or another human’s (whether the church or capitalists) whim, not at the expressed will of God. The date and most traditions come from pagandom; this seems well known (consult any encyclopedia). If you conclude the passover is correct for Christ’s death, and he lived 33-1/2 years, then count six months and the date of his birth is around late September or early October. But don’t bother celebrating that…Jesus clearly said to celebrate his death for our sins and salvation. Luke 22:19. No mention of his birth. I’ll do what he says.
Excellent point. If the date of His birth was important, we would have been told when it was. From that, I conclude the observing it it also unimportant.
Counting from when we believe the course of Abijah was, and the time of Elisabeth’s pregnancy and meeting of Mary, we end up at late Sept. Right around the 29th.
(1) Christmas was set at the Saturnalia, not so much to preempt the pagan holiday or to allow pagans to continue to celebrate it as Christians, but as protective coloration: if the Christians were not celebrating when their neighbors did, or if they celebrated when the neighbors did not, they would stand out. The idea that the date was chosen for this reason only really gains popularity in the High Middle Ages, about 1200. Since the dates were picked (Dec 25 in the West, Jan 6 in the East) long before that, even before 400, and likely before the Persecutions had ceased under Diocletian—the Donatists celebrated Dec. 25, but refused to recognize Jan 6—the idea that the Christians were accommodating pagans is unhistorical and unlikely.
(2) Although we do not agree with this sort of exegesis, one possible reason for celebrating Christ’s birth at the Solstice (and John’s six months earlier, at the Summer Solstice) is John’s comment, “He must increase; I must decrease.” Having the light increasing with Christ’s birth, and decreasing at John’s, is a symbolic way to express this verse.
(3) Biblical evidence—particularly shepherds out watching the flocks—do point to Spring or Fall dates. But a date at the Vernal Equinox would put Christmas in Lent or at Easter—which makes it hard to celebrate both properly. The December date allows us to remember and celebrate both seasons in turn.
bluskies almost 12 years ago
Bazinga!
Linux0s almost 12 years ago
Cut from the same cloth.
ratlum almost 12 years ago
Re evaluating my strategy.You mean it would be a lost cause to use Calvins behaviour for anything,o dear Calvin is right, but Mom cant help.
margueritem almost 12 years ago
he nailed ya!
cookies333 almost 12 years ago
You insulted him first Calvin!
cookies333 almost 12 years ago
Thanks Hobbes! : )
Hobbes Premium Member almost 12 years ago
@cookies333: You’re welcome. You are up late tonight. It’s past my bedtime.
cdward almost 12 years ago
Since the tree has NOTHING to do with Christ, since people used them in pre-Christian societies, and since MANY non-Christians have them to this day, Holiday Tree is far more appropriate. But worse by far for Christianity than people calling it a Holiday Tree is thin-skinned Christians getting bent out of shape about it! You do our faith a true disservice.
Gluteus Maximus almost 12 years ago
all rite thisll sound dumb but calvin lost me. TOO MANY BIG WORDS!!!
draeagwol almost 12 years ago
I couldn’t agree more with you PixieJane… I do not know how many times I had to refute that same refrain on FB from friends and family…
So, a Belated Yule Tide Blessings to thee!
dorotheac928 almost 12 years ago
And if the Pilgrim’s beliefs had prevailed, we’d have had none of the Christmas hoopla in the first place. They knew that Christ’s birthday was not in December and that pagan holidays had been usurped as a cover in the early days of Christianity. They expressly forbade anyone from celebrating Christmas, insisted that everyone work as if it were a regular day (unless it happened to land on Sunday which was holy), and FINED anyone who was caught celebrating. This is part of why they were called the Puritans – they wanted a PURE Christianity without it being sullied with all the pagan practices – trees, lights, gifts, eggs, bunnies, etc.
In fact, they were the originators of the so-called “War on Christmas.” Learn some real history, please.
RickMK almost 12 years ago
It’s not a “Yule-tree”, PixieJane. Though the origins of the Xmas tree are unrecorded, the most likely origin is from the Medieval Mystery Play. Around Christmas-time, the Mystery Play of Adam and Eve would be put on. The main prop for the play was the tree (of the knowledge of good & evil). Because of that, people always would associate that tree prop with Christmas. Even after the Mystery Plays faded away, that tree still remained associated with Christmas! And that’s why people still put up decorated trees in their homes for Christmas.
I for one find it offensive when people try to be politically correct by substituting “Happy Holidays” for “Merry Christmas”. If people do it to avoid offending people, they should be aware that they are also offending an awful lot of people when they say “Happy Holidays”!
Thomas Linquist almost 12 years ago
The few Jewish, Muslim, Bhuddist and Shik people I know always say “Merry Christmas” when they meet someone they know is a Christian. Granted, they are all church leaders who believe in faiths working together.
Hobbes Premium Member almost 12 years ago
Religion gets complicated sometimes, because beliefs are intertwined with traditions. And some traditions are intertwined with our memories of childhood. Christmas, in particular, is full of beliefs, traditions, and fond memories of our childhoods, so it has a strong tie to our emotions. Therefore, it can be very difficult for us to see Christmas traditions change over time and become different from the way we remember them from when we were growing up.For many Christians, changing traditions create a tension between the church and the secular world. But they also create tensions within the church — for example, as the language of the Bible evolves away from the King James toward modern English.Even for Christians who believe that Christmas traditions need to evolve as our world becomes more multicultural, there can still be an emotional feeling of loss at Christmas — for example, hearing only secular winter songs played at the mall, when they remember hearing religious Christmas carols as children as they were doing Christmas shopping with their parents.Now, back to our regularly scheduled program, on the vicarious lives of parents………….
rentier almost 12 years ago
Yes, cut from the same cloth!
el_flesh almost 12 years ago
I don’t mind calling it “Krissmass” as a secular label! I can even tolerate the christian religion based carols for a few weeks with appreciation for the music if not the lyric content. But there’s no doubt it’s a purloined holiday – the Saturnalia!
HAPPY SATURNALIA EVERYONE!!!
Perkycat almost 12 years ago
WHAT DOES ALL THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE COMIC????I really enjoy-ed the comic. Calvin is great and Dad are great in this.@SUSAN NEWMAN – I know that’s not true. We get a lot from you here.
Number Three almost 12 years ago
Telltale!
Haha… Joke.
xxx
fuzzyimages almost 12 years ago
Mom may be wondering if it’s too late to have an abortion.
Rickapolis almost 12 years ago
I would say that Hobbes is living vicariously through Calvin.
Aerin17 almost 12 years ago
I’m a “fundie” (no need to make it insulting ) and I totally agree with you. “Christmas” is a pagan holiday made over by Roman Catholics so they could give the commoners their old holidays and make them “christian” at the same time. If you ask me we should let them have “christmas” It was theirs to begin with, and the celebration as a whole isn’t exactly Biblical. :)
Vonne Anton almost 12 years ago
It is amazing how many people know Xmas is pagan, but still celebrate it. Many commenters correctly state the reason why: what it means to them now and how much they enjoy the season. The only problem with that outlook is that it doesn’t consider what God thinks of it. We might approve of it, but does He? And just because we enjoy it, does that mean He has to? See 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. No doubt, He does love joy, peace, kindness, goodwill, but all those can be enjoyed daily without the pagan trappings, don’t you think?
tuslog64 almost 12 years ago
Don’t you just hate it when some B——— insults you?
tuslog64 almost 12 years ago
Christmas – the grand holy day of the Gross National Product – or so it’s become.
morristhecat almost 12 years ago
Way to go Dad! Nail him now before he grows up.
caseyatbat16 almost 12 years ago
The brat needs his bottom spanked by Daddy – hard!
Gretchen's Mom almost 12 years ago
Oh, SNAP!!!!! ;-)
calvinsfriend110 almost 12 years ago
Big words for a six-year old.
Popeyesforearm almost 12 years ago
hit him upside the head with a snowball, either way it works.
Snoopy_Fan almost 12 years ago
My understanding is that the Pilgrims were not Puritans but Separatists. Puritans came over a little later.
Dry and Dusty Premium Member almost 12 years ago
Hilarious! LOL!
Hobbes Premium Member almost 12 years ago
@Vonne Anton: Christians in the liturgical churches follow a yearly calendar that includes Christmas, Epiphany (the coming of the Wise Men), Easter, the Ascension, Pentecost (the coming of the Holy Spirit), and so on, assigned to particular days during the church year. While the churches recognize that these are not necessarily the actual days that the historical events took place, they are following very old traditions and it enhances their worship, which they believe is pleasing to God. They do not believe that God is offended by their choice of the particular days of the calendar for celebrating these events, even if those days coincide with oher secular celebrations.
Newshound41 almost 12 years ago
C&H is a politics and rant free zone. Please let us enjoy the humor and wit of this precocious 6 year old and put your diatribes on Doonesbury or an editorial cartoon.
alviebird almost 12 years ago
I refuse to go along with the lies that this “holiday” season is based on. Another thing, this is not a ‘holy day" (but that’s beside the point). Let people (and corporations) take the meaning out of “Christmas”. The only meaning it has is based on lies and “the traditions of men”. “Reason for the season” my backside. I used to think the season was being polluted by commerce and paganism. Then I realized that there is nothing there to pollute in the first place. “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Holiday”? Makes no nevermind to me.
How can one take Christ out of Christmas when he was never there in the first place?
alviebird almost 12 years ago
And then there is the Santa thing. We tell children about a being we don’t see, who gives us good things if we are good. They grow up and realize they have been lied to, and then we wonder why they have a difficult time believing in the God we tell them about.
vwdualnomand almost 12 years ago
parents, don’t live your lives through your kids. if they don’t want to play baseball, so what. or, don’t be upset if they want to follow in your footsteps.
Konabill almost 12 years ago
The first amendment allows almost all religious beliefs to be promoted out loud but, should that include bad-mouthing my beliefs?
Vonne Anton almost 12 years ago
I am sorry my comment was offensive to some. Hobbes made the point more tactfully: people celebrate a holiday at their or another human’s (whether the church or capitalists) whim, not at the expressed will of God. The date and most traditions come from pagandom; this seems well known (consult any encyclopedia). If you conclude the passover is correct for Christ’s death, and he lived 33-1/2 years, then count six months and the date of his birth is around late September or early October. But don’t bother celebrating that…Jesus clearly said to celebrate his death for our sins and salvation. Luke 22:19. No mention of his birth. I’ll do what he says.
alviebird almost 12 years ago
Excellent point. If the date of His birth was important, we would have been told when it was. From that, I conclude the observing it it also unimportant.
Counting from when we believe the course of Abijah was, and the time of Elisabeth’s pregnancy and meeting of Mary, we end up at late Sept. Right around the 29th.
bmonk almost 12 years ago
May I clarify a few points, belatedly?
(1) Christmas was set at the Saturnalia, not so much to preempt the pagan holiday or to allow pagans to continue to celebrate it as Christians, but as protective coloration: if the Christians were not celebrating when their neighbors did, or if they celebrated when the neighbors did not, they would stand out. The idea that the date was chosen for this reason only really gains popularity in the High Middle Ages, about 1200. Since the dates were picked (Dec 25 in the West, Jan 6 in the East) long before that, even before 400, and likely before the Persecutions had ceased under Diocletian—the Donatists celebrated Dec. 25, but refused to recognize Jan 6—the idea that the Christians were accommodating pagans is unhistorical and unlikely.
(2) Although we do not agree with this sort of exegesis, one possible reason for celebrating Christ’s birth at the Solstice (and John’s six months earlier, at the Summer Solstice) is John’s comment, “He must increase; I must decrease.” Having the light increasing with Christ’s birth, and decreasing at John’s, is a symbolic way to express this verse.
(3) Biblical evidence—particularly shepherds out watching the flocks—do point to Spring or Fall dates. But a date at the Vernal Equinox would put Christmas in Lent or at Easter—which makes it hard to celebrate both properly. The December date allows us to remember and celebrate both seasons in turn.
(4) What Snoopy Fan said. Well said!