Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for September 22, 2009

At least Mom is bright enough to see potential philosophical inconsistencies and/or conflicts.

Unlike that guy that Kate saw a quote from who said that twenty years ago, when he was surviving on Medicare and food stamps noone was suggesting that the government should help him out…

What, you were looking for logic, when all the arguments are emotional?

In her cash for clunkers vehicle.

You see, it’s difficult. When it makes sense as far as self-interest, it’s hard to bring up philosophical differences that fly in the face of that same self interest.

This is what’s so damning about government programs. They directly benefit people…and it’s difficult to turn them down.

Philosophy doesn’t pay the bills.

My Mom probably would have had a similar view but I think when she go ther first medical bill without Medicare she would have seen reality and changed her mind. Mom never really liked change but when it was inevitable she usually made the right decisions. Just like all of us will.

Put her on an ice floe

Let’s see. Roosevelt created extra Supreme Court seats so he could appoint justices in step with what might have been an unconstitutional Social Security Ponzi scheme.

Since the 60s, I have paid $84.000 in Social Security taxes and my boss has paid the same. If I had put that in an S&P Index, what would it now be worth?

Oh wait, I should let Big Brother handle my finances

It’s kinda sad that in tagging seniors as being confused, Garry himself needs to step to the head of the clueless line.

Depends, Lew. What makes you think you would have invested any better than a lot of other folks who’ve lost their shirts? And if you didn’t, what you’d be faced with in your retirement is eating a lot of dog food.

Lewreader if you had invested that money in an S&P Index you’d be broke right now just like a lot of folks who actually DID invest their money in an S&P index.

I think the similarities between Medicare and Obamacare are important, and are in no way supportive of the pro-reform point of view.

It just seems like we’re making the same mistakes over and over again. It is widely accepted (or used to be) that the biggest domestic problems in this country by a huge margin are Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid. We can’t afford them as they are, but as a direct result of the damage they’ve done to the rest of their sectors of the economy, we can’t afford to get rid of them.

And speaking of emotion – while it’s a fact that there are problems in the health care system, and specifically the health insurance industry, there are some other facts as well. Some of the emotional things President Obama keeps bringing up – such as insurance companies denying coverage for services they should be paying for, or dropping insureds altogether when they get sick – are already illegal. It requires not the slightest action on the part of congress to prevent the most egregious of the abuses Obama routinely complains about. It requires nothing more than a phone call from the president or his AG. Many of the anecdotes he’s relayed reflect felonious behavior. In the exaggerated forms in which he’s told them, some of them are capital offenses.

The same is true of eliminating the fraud waste and abuse in Medicare that is supposedly going to pay for all this. No legislation is required, Obama already has the authority – and indeed the responsibility – for reigning it in if in fact he knows how do go about doing so.

Of the remaining problems in health care – the ones that do not persist solely as a result of lack of will on the part of the executive, almost all are imposed by government. Isolation of the patient from the cost of care is by far the largest. The only reason it costs your insurance company $100+ for a $50 physical is because you don’t know until after you get your EOB that your insurer is even paying that much. Indeed, I’ll wager that at least half of you don’t know what your carrier pays for a given service even after you get your EOB because most of you don’t read or even open the bleeep things. And the one creative response to this problem, proven to work despite limited availability, is the combination of high-deductible major medical with HSAs – something that Obama inexplicably seeks to outlaw completely.

Portability, another biggie, is a completely government created problem. This one would take legislation to fix, but not 1000+ pages of legislation. Simply adopt the McCain proposal, replacing the tax deduction available exclusively to employer sponsored plans with a tax credit available to everyone, and then eliminate restrictions on buying insurance across state lines. While you’re at it, add the single word “refundable” to the description of the tax credit and you’ve made insurance affordable to everyone.

The problem is large in scope, and there is substantial complexity, though almost all of it is government created. But the fix isn’t rocket science, and there’s no need to resort to irreversible - and highly unconstitutional - measures such as a public insurance option; certainly not before trying some of the common sense things that have a probability of success that is orders of magnitude higher, and on which there is unanimity of support.

45 years ago, there were hardly any for-profit insurers, and we were much better off. It doesn’t take 6+paragraphs to explain what happened when the profit motive made health care a very deadly business in this country. The cartoon is pointing out that if we follow Glenn Beck, we are STUPID!!!!!

The fact that an unhinged moron coward like Beck is the sole source for millions of right wingers is frightening. I wish all these morons against a public option would get off Medicare ASAP. and let them buy health insurance from AIG or some other company with ACTUAL death panels. See if their leaders Osama bin limbaugh and Beck have any solutions.

Here’s a funny thought, whom would you entrust your important healthcare decision to:

A) a career bureacrat that get paid the same regardless of what decision is reached?

B) a bean-counter who’s loyalty is to the bottom line of the company and may get a bonus for trimming costs?

Oh, the emotional issues that President Obama keeps bringing up are already illegal? Tell that to the people who have lost members of their families because of a denial of services. No legal judgment would every repay them. Maybe people don’t want to have to rely on government services but surely you realize that your friends and neighbors can’t step up and pay your million dollar medical bills. Get real. The stock market won’t get you there either. We tried the Bush approach. It is over. Let’s move forward! Every other industrialized country in the world has had government playing a much larger role in healthcare. Get over it.

thepeoplesmushroom…..I totally agree. my thoughts exactly …. …except what bothers me is your avitar…. you are clearly a pats fan……..but me being a colts fan, you can understand my feelings…..

I HATE the pats, but love most of the pats fans politics!

Hey tizzo, half the things you mentioned have been identified by factcheck.org as lies.

I guess you must be reading from the anonymous e-mail.

All this discussion is interesting, however your missing the point. The insurance lobby has convinced otherwise intelligent people that an evil Death Panel exsists when it does not.

It a clear lie and Republicans know it and say nothing!

All evil needs to exist is for good people to do nothing.

You know “tizzo”, your whole argument rests on the philosophy that government is “ipso facto” bad, and therefore everything that is associated with government is also bad. The reality is this: if you are looking for an example of the triumph of Capitalism, the private insurance industry is not what you would want to use as a model. Anyone would be hard pressed to find a more inefficient industry, be it government or private.

Insurance companies have been called “invisible bankers” because they make their money in many of the same ways that commercial banks do. (Indeed, many insurance companies are a subsidiary of bank holding companies - often their most profitable entity.) It can lead one to wonder if rates went up at renewal time because of “trial lawyers bringing frivolous lawsuits” or “our return on investments have gone down and we need to make up the difference.” If asked, guess which explanation the companies will use.

Insurance is one area which I am totally convinced that Government can do better than private corporations. Those who fear government in any area can relax in this case; the insurance industry will do whatever it takes to protect their turf. Just look at the income statement of any large insurance company and note the reserves - what’s spending hundreds of thousands of dollars when hundreds of millions of dollars are at stake.

We already have death panels, but they’re called insurance companies. If you’ve used up your lifetime cap, of can’t get insurance because of a pre-existing condition, or can’t afford the copay on that lifesaving drug, you’re going to die.

Well Susan001, yes I’m retired (24years), I would gladly do away with SS (Ponzi Scheme), I never wanted nor had the opportunity to refuse Medicare. Would have definitely done better with S&P or other investments. I am NOT living on SS but with the proceeds of my own investments, which would have been better/more had I not been forced to participate in the various Government Policies. We don’t need Socialism in any form.

My Grandfather lived during the “Window” period of SS and wisely refused to participate in this broken program - he was able to see through FDR’s phony, self aggrandizing, doomed to failure plan.

OldHipster,

I have proven that I know how to swim.

Government is socialist by nature. We could go door to door asking our neighbors to help fund a couple bags of asphalt to fill a pothole. Anyone able bodied could defend the city walls. Can’t we all pitch in a portion of the day’s hunt for the medicine man in case anyone gets sick?

Susan001 and others;

Lucky ~~ No, Wealthy ~~ No, Low wage worker ~~ Yes, Raised Three young ones on well less than $100.00 a week. Careful / Intelligent investor ~~ Yes, In Favor of Social Programs ~~ NO!

BC I agree. The recent temporary downturn of the market is nothing compared to the giant gains it has made in the 40 years I’ve been working and paying the Ponzi Social Security. Let me get this straight. I pay money while I work to support others who no longer work. Then when I get old, younger workers will pay me. How is this different than a Ponzi?

Lewreader theoretically, the money paid in now goes to many people who are in need of it. those paying money now get paid by those paying in the future (which is the only similarity to Ponzi). the big difference is that the Ponzi goes to ONE person (or very few people) instead of to the many, many people who get paid from Social Security.

Okay, Canadian content.

I am almost sixty, I have received excellent medical care all my life. Even my prescriptions are 80% covered. I have never met anybody who was short-changed by the Canadian system

I pay taxes and invest, medicare is the bst investment I make!

Well, we could have had all our SS money invested in the stock market that crashed last year if we had gone with the Bush plan.That would have been so much better than Healthcare Reform.