“Eye of the needle” is not a gate in Jerusalem. That was a lie, probably fabricated by a ‘man of the cloth’ to assuage his guilt surrounding his greed.
When Jesus said that it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven, the disciples didn’t say, “Oh yeah, tough, but not impossible. Camels go through the gate all the time.”
No, they were shocked. They thought that wealth was a sign of God’s love and wondered then WHO can possibly get into heaven? Jesus was talking about the impossible.
The important thing is what comes next. Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Lewreader,SQLMamma is correct about the “Eye of the needle.” When Jesus said it, he meant it to be understood in those terms. Ultimately, what he meant was, those who have great wealth are condemning themselves because they love it more than pretty much anything else. Certainly, they love it more than the poor.
Regardless of your faith or lack thereof, love of wealth will kill your soul (or whatever life-giving force you choose). Say what you will about Jesus, in the gospels he is far more concerned with how the poor and disenfranchised are cared for than about sex. I recommend his approach.
Oh, and Clark, I assume you don’t believe in heaven. Fine, but then it’s disingenuous to say what heaven is like. Generally, neither scripture nor the church say anything about what goes on there or what it looks like - only that it is a place of joy.
I know too many people who have all the goodies and parties and sex they want and are still miserable. So I’m assuming joy doesn’t reside there (even though I like those things okay).
and yet just by changing one letter in Koine Greek, camel becomes rope. “It is easier for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle…” Makes more sense. Nobody has the original to check…
Abundantley blessed? Then retirement in a gated community with like minded people. Supersinner and I will be ib the smoking section somewhere else. Amen!
In Mark 10:21 Jesus is reported as saying “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.”
In 24:25 he says “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”
27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”
It’s pretty clear from that this Jesus meant something impossible - not a rope, and not a gate. He clearly didn’t think greed was good, and didn’t think economics should be based on capitalism.
I don’t care how much money you have, the only things that matter to me are how you got it, and what you do with it once you have it. I’m hoping you did, and continue to do, good things. For the record, I’m somewhere between atheist and agnostic.
“In Mark 10:21 Jesus is reported as saying ‘Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.’”
Y’know, that sounds like a pretty good argument, from a Christian perspective, for an estate tax; a fairly hefty one at that. I’m sure the GOP (Greedy One Percent) would never see it that way, of course.
There was a translation/transcription error by some scholarly scribe many centuries ago. The words for “rope” and “camel” differ by only one character in whichever original language he was working from..
Sayhowurfeeling….. I think that you are having a little problem with the concept behind this corporate entrance exam. Your suggestion would be putting the eye of the needle through the camel. It is supposed to be the other way around. Don’t worry, a lot of businesses make that mistake. I think the original instructions were fairly specific, even if Wiley didn’t repeat them.
Based on the comments and to fulfill all translations the rest of it might read:
2.) find a rope and attach to camel.
3.) pass the rope through the eye of the needle.
4.) drag camel through needle with the rope.
That would keep everybody happy……except the camel.
I didn’t get the strip, I’ve never heard of this eye of the needle business and I don’t know what the camel has to do with it so I thought I’d read the comments to clear things up.
It is easier for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
This from ~ HOLY BIBLE From Ancient Eastern Manuscripts transcribed by George M Lamsa, a native Assyrian born and raised in a part of the ancient biblical land from which Abraham migrated to Palestine.
Jesus is supposed to have repeatedly condemned being wealthy and caring about money– and also condemned divorce and remarriage as being equal to adultery. Someone explain to me why so many “Christians” have ripped out those verses and fixated on homosexuals and abortion, which Jesus never mentioned.
We can tell you made up your god when he hates everybody you hate.
Mark Twain also said something to the effect of he’d probably enjoy hell better than heaven be cause the people would be more fun to be with and the conversations would be better…
I was taught the Eye was a gate in Jerusalem, but that it was so narrow that the only way a camel can get through is to shed whatever packs it is carrying. That would go along nicely with how Jesus was telling the guy to give up all his worldly possessions.
But let’s just yell at each other about religion instead. It’s much more fun.
its a frickin’ cartoon, sakes. get a life all you christers.
yeesh.
oh: mistranslated from the latin from the greek from the aramaic: rope. not camel. passing a rope throught the needle eye. makes a lot more sense, eh?
camel. sort of like the mistranslation of poisoner. it became witch. and a young woman became a virgin mother in the same way. catholic monks couldn’t translate worth a bleeep, and now you have a rather ludicrous religion based essentially upon bad writing. uck.
My idea of the perfect afterlife is one in which there is no literal heaven or hell; each person gets, instead of what they hope they’ll get, what they fear they deserve.
Personally, I’m not sure I’d care for the traditional notion of an afterlife. While I would really like being reunited with my late wife, I’d hate to have to put up with my sister for eternity.
Wow! A simple wry commentary on the corporate raiders “paying” for their actions, at some point , and all the “thumpers” go nuts, again. Considering how many “hypocrhristians” are actually just greedheads trying to cover their assets in the afterlife, which well, doesn’t really exist as described in the ‘toon, or “the book”– too funny. Belief and faith don’t have to include interpreting myths literally.
If there is a heaven or hell, I hope Georg Cantor or David Hilbert designed them.That way, if you’re in heaven, all you’d have to do is sing for about a minute once a day EVERY day for Eternity. Thus you would do in infinite amount of signing and still have the rest of the day to enjoy yourself.
Same as with Hell: you get a tiny poke with a hot needle once a day for Eternity and get an infinite amount of suffering, but get to enjoy yourself the rest of the time.
A: The reason for the biblical discussion is because the cartoon makes a biblical allusion.
B: It is not a mistranslation. It says camel (kamilos), not rope (kamêlos), and it mesa camel, not rope. This is a classic case of hyperbole, which is an accepted rhetorical style of the time and culture. It is intended to make the impossibility of the situation more obvious, since the camel is the largest land animal common to the area. In the Babylonian Talmud there is a similar saying, but with elephants.
C: The point of the aphorism is still basically the same as that of the cartoon: The very rich (here represented by the corporate exec whose sole function is to make money for those who already have money, and especially for him or herself), live lives that are antithetical to the Gospel - or to anyone who cares for those who have less.
My husband (we being of the Jewish persuasion) needed me to explain this one this morning. I said it was a New Testament thing. Nonetheless, this gets entry into the Death Cartoon Collection at The Family Plot Blog!
http://thefamilyplot.wordpress.com/category/death-cartoons/
another turn of the spoon: I thought the “Eye of the Needle” was a gate in the wall where ONLY people could go in or out…
Wiley, you’ve hit another outadapark!
I’ve been taught that heaven is all around us at this moment. Our priest (a female) conjectures that Jesus may have said the camel through the needle part with a sense of humor, plus I’ve also read/learned about the narrow gate.. In any case, we’ve learned that Jesus didn’t condemn people who had surplus money; he did, however, tell us that it’s not to be worshipped. We don’t usually attribute a sense of humor to Jesus, but he probably had one.
As the guy who first mentioned the rope not camel, I doth repent in ashes
Glad I didn’t mention that stauros and xylon were originally upright stakes, pole ot tree and not a cross…
Woops, just did
and @ cdward, thanks for the translations. What have you got on stauros and xylon?
I’m surprised the right-wing tea partiers are reading this comic strip in the first place! After all, they HAVE no sense of humor! And most of those with no sense of humor, have no sense, period, as far as I’m concerned. Non Sequitur is one of the best strips!
As this string of comments demonstrates, there is no certainty to any quotation from 2,000 years ago. This one is, however, consistent with others attributed to Jesus regarding the danger that wealth will be a barrier to the kingdom of heaven.
It is the distinction between “money is the root of all evil” and “the love of money is the root of all evil.”
you need to broaden your imagination, and information, about what Heaven will be like. Your waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off.
comicgos almost 14 years ago
Hmmm… I think Hell would be more interesting!
EarlWash almost 14 years ago
He wouldn’t fit even without the camel.
rayannina almost 14 years ago
A lot of people think that. It isn’t.
thirdguy almost 14 years ago
excuse me Clark but when the lightning hits, I really don’t want to be this close to you.
lewisbower almost 14 years ago
Oh CLARK It might be standing for eternity knowing there was a great party and you refused the invitation.
As for the “eye of the needle”, it is a gate in Jeruselem a camel may enter by kneeling. Allegory, perhaps. You got forever to decide.
SQLMamma almost 14 years ago
“Eye of the needle” is not a gate in Jerusalem. That was a lie, probably fabricated by a ‘man of the cloth’ to assuage his guilt surrounding his greed.
When Jesus said that it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven, the disciples didn’t say, “Oh yeah, tough, but not impossible. Camels go through the gate all the time.”
No, they were shocked. They thought that wealth was a sign of God’s love and wondered then WHO can possibly get into heaven? Jesus was talking about the impossible.
The important thing is what comes next. Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Monkmunk almost 14 years ago
Haha! This is so true! How stupid is it that we don’t take everything the bible says completely seriously?
cdward almost 14 years ago
Lewreader, SQLMamma is correct about the “Eye of the needle.” When Jesus said it, he meant it to be understood in those terms. Ultimately, what he meant was, those who have great wealth are condemning themselves because they love it more than pretty much anything else. Certainly, they love it more than the poor.
Regardless of your faith or lack thereof, love of wealth will kill your soul (or whatever life-giving force you choose). Say what you will about Jesus, in the gospels he is far more concerned with how the poor and disenfranchised are cared for than about sex. I recommend his approach.
cdward almost 14 years ago
Oh, and Clark, I assume you don’t believe in heaven. Fine, but then it’s disingenuous to say what heaven is like. Generally, neither scripture nor the church say anything about what goes on there or what it looks like - only that it is a place of joy.
I know too many people who have all the goodies and parties and sex they want and are still miserable. So I’m assuming joy doesn’t reside there (even though I like those things okay).
grapfhics almost 14 years ago
What will the GOP think now. SQLMomma? Does God love them or not? Tune in tomorrow, while the Government reassesses the budget and revenues.
black_knight15_au almost 14 years ago
and yet just by changing one letter in Koine Greek, camel becomes rope. “It is easier for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle…” Makes more sense. Nobody has the original to check…
Elaine Rosco Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Pray for the unbelievers that they may believe!
Marblypup almost 14 years ago
To quote ‘Kehlog Albran’, “it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle… if it is lightly greased”.
roctor almost 14 years ago
Abundantley blessed? Then retirement in a gated community with like minded people. Supersinner and I will be ib the smoking section somewhere else. Amen!
peter0423 almost 14 years ago
You do get to choose, roctor, right now and every day you live. Your will be done.
Yukoneric almost 14 years ago
Aren’t the words for camel and rope the same? Take your pick for the most sensible……………..
bbHhh almost 14 years ago
In Mark 10:21 Jesus is reported as saying “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.”
In 24:25 he says “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”
27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”
It’s pretty clear from that this Jesus meant something impossible - not a rope, and not a gate. He clearly didn’t think greed was good, and didn’t think economics should be based on capitalism.
Packratjohn Premium Member almost 14 years ago
I don’t care how much money you have, the only things that matter to me are how you got it, and what you do with it once you have it. I’m hoping you did, and continue to do, good things. For the record, I’m somewhere between atheist and agnostic.
alan.gurka almost 14 years ago
Clark, maybe that’s your hell.
wicky almost 14 years ago
That’s all it is, an allegory.
DavidGBA almost 14 years ago
and that is a BIGGGGGGGGGGGG needle!
Can't Sleep almost 14 years ago
All this religious and political discussion has overlooked one thing – a very funny strip.
Sandfan almost 14 years ago
Always entertaining to have people explain exactly what Jesus meant 2000 years ago. So what was up with Muhammed and those virgins?
MobyD almost 14 years ago
bbHhh said:
“In Mark 10:21 Jesus is reported as saying ‘Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.’”
Y’know, that sounds like a pretty good argument, from a Christian perspective, for an estate tax; a fairly hefty one at that. I’m sure the GOP (Greedy One Percent) would never see it that way, of course.
Digital Frog almost 14 years ago
So Camelot is next to heaven? Did Authur finally find the Holy Grail? Tune in next week when…
rmbdot almost 14 years ago
Rope, not camel.
There was a translation/transcription error by some scholarly scribe many centuries ago. The words for “rope” and “camel” differ by only one character in whichever original language he was working from..
aerwalt almost 14 years ago
There is nothing wrong with being wealthy.
What you do with it is what counts.
I prefer my heirs to use whatever is left when I go rather
than the gov’t.
Nelly55 almost 14 years ago
stirred the pot all the way around today, eh Wiley?
I’m with Nightshade………very funny strip
CUTTERMALONE almost 14 years ago
Sayhowurfeeling….. I think that you are having a little problem with the concept behind this corporate entrance exam. Your suggestion would be putting the eye of the needle through the camel. It is supposed to be the other way around. Don’t worry, a lot of businesses make that mistake. I think the original instructions were fairly specific, even if Wiley didn’t repeat them.
Based on the comments and to fulfill all translations the rest of it might read:
2.) find a rope and attach to camel. 3.) pass the rope through the eye of the needle. 4.) drag camel through needle with the rope.
That would keep everybody happy……except the camel.
ilsapadu almost 14 years ago
I didn’t get the strip, I’ve never heard of this eye of the needle business and I don’t know what the camel has to do with it so I thought I’d read the comments to clear things up.
Believe me, things are not clearer now.
TaurusLady almost 14 years ago
St Mark 10:25 ~
It is easier for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
This from ~ HOLY BIBLE From Ancient Eastern Manuscripts transcribed by George M Lamsa, a native Assyrian born and raised in a part of the ancient biblical land from which Abraham migrated to Palestine.
Kevin Parker Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Jesus is supposed to have repeatedly condemned being wealthy and caring about money– and also condemned divorce and remarriage as being equal to adultery. Someone explain to me why so many “Christians” have ripped out those verses and fixated on homosexuals and abortion, which Jesus never mentioned.
We can tell you made up your god when he hates everybody you hate.
cocoonministries almost 14 years ago
At THIRDGUY: as if He could miss!
kirbey almost 14 years ago
@NightShade09, I also think this is a really funny strip today as always !
cheers !
hitman4cookies almost 14 years ago
“The elevator to the bottom floor is to the left sir…”
Varnes almost 14 years ago
Mark Twain also said something to the effect of he’d probably enjoy hell better than heaven be cause the people would be more fun to be with and the conversations would be better…
Varnes almost 14 years ago
Ok, I looked it up, it was Heaven for the climate and Hell for the company, but I thought he said it the other way, too….
TaurusLady almost 14 years ago
billdog ~ I am just sayin’…..am a recovered Catholic and have no interest in organized religion or people who claim to know what God thinks!
Ernest Lemmingway almost 14 years ago
I think everyone is reading too much into this. The sign says, “Corporate Entrance Exam.” It applies only to corp execs.
GeraldTarrant almost 14 years ago
I was taught the Eye was a gate in Jerusalem, but that it was so narrow that the only way a camel can get through is to shed whatever packs it is carrying. That would go along nicely with how Jesus was telling the guy to give up all his worldly possessions.
But let’s just yell at each other about religion instead. It’s much more fun.
dfowensby almost 14 years ago
its a frickin’ cartoon, sakes. get a life all you christers. yeesh. oh: mistranslated from the latin from the greek from the aramaic: rope. not camel. passing a rope throught the needle eye. makes a lot more sense, eh? camel. sort of like the mistranslation of poisoner. it became witch. and a young woman became a virgin mother in the same way. catholic monks couldn’t translate worth a bleeep, and now you have a rather ludicrous religion based essentially upon bad writing. uck.
sleepeeg3 almost 14 years ago
If you have to explain it…
Something religious, Wiley ripping on corporate America again - I think I got it. >yawn<
runar almost 14 years ago
My idea of the perfect afterlife is one in which there is no literal heaven or hell; each person gets, instead of what they hope they’ll get, what they fear they deserve.
Personally, I’m not sure I’d care for the traditional notion of an afterlife. While I would really like being reunited with my late wife, I’d hate to have to put up with my sister for eternity.
Dtroutma almost 14 years ago
Wow! A simple wry commentary on the corporate raiders “paying” for their actions, at some point , and all the “thumpers” go nuts, again. Considering how many “hypocrhristians” are actually just greedheads trying to cover their assets in the afterlife, which well, doesn’t really exist as described in the ‘toon, or “the book”– too funny. Belief and faith don’t have to include interpreting myths literally.
dflak almost 14 years ago
There comes a point when you stop owning things and they start owning you.
DonVanni almost 14 years ago
If there is a heaven or hell, I hope Georg Cantor or David Hilbert designed them.That way, if you’re in heaven, all you’d have to do is sing for about a minute once a day EVERY day for Eternity. Thus you would do in infinite amount of signing and still have the rest of the day to enjoy yourself. Same as with Hell: you get a tiny poke with a hot needle once a day for Eternity and get an infinite amount of suffering, but get to enjoy yourself the rest of the time.
MatureCanadian almost 14 years ago
Wow, Wiley, sure stirred it up today! Love it.
Yes, Mark Twain’s Letters from the Earth says it all.
cdward almost 14 years ago
A: The reason for the biblical discussion is because the cartoon makes a biblical allusion.
B: It is not a mistranslation. It says camel (kamilos), not rope (kamêlos), and it mesa camel, not rope. This is a classic case of hyperbole, which is an accepted rhetorical style of the time and culture. It is intended to make the impossibility of the situation more obvious, since the camel is the largest land animal common to the area. In the Babylonian Talmud there is a similar saying, but with elephants.
C: The point of the aphorism is still basically the same as that of the cartoon: The very rich (here represented by the corporate exec whose sole function is to make money for those who already have money, and especially for him or herself), live lives that are antithetical to the Gospel - or to anyone who cares for those who have less.
COGNIZANT almost 14 years ago
Very good, “Darke Force”
GailRubin almost 14 years ago
My husband (we being of the Jewish persuasion) needed me to explain this one this morning. I said it was a New Testament thing. Nonetheless, this gets entry into the Death Cartoon Collection at The Family Plot Blog! http://thefamilyplot.wordpress.com/category/death-cartoons/
Justice22 almost 14 years ago
To make it short,,, Worshipping money is the true evil, not having some.
treered almost 14 years ago
another turn of the spoon: I thought the “Eye of the Needle” was a gate in the wall where ONLY people could go in or out… Wiley, you’ve hit another outadapark!
lin4869 almost 14 years ago
I’ve been taught that heaven is all around us at this moment. Our priest (a female) conjectures that Jesus may have said the camel through the needle part with a sense of humor, plus I’ve also read/learned about the narrow gate.. In any case, we’ve learned that Jesus didn’t condemn people who had surplus money; he did, however, tell us that it’s not to be worshipped. We don’t usually attribute a sense of humor to Jesus, but he probably had one.
black_knight15_au almost 14 years ago
As the guy who first mentioned the rope not camel, I doth repent in ashes Glad I didn’t mention that stauros and xylon were originally upright stakes, pole ot tree and not a cross… Woops, just did and @ cdward, thanks for the translations. What have you got on stauros and xylon?
artybee almost 14 years ago
Well, which is it, rope or camel??? I thought The Good Book was supposed to have been written all perfect in the rough draft.
1OldDude almost 14 years ago
@Digital Frog: A used camel lot next door to heaven? Lack of money is the root of all evil!
wacorley almost 14 years ago
I’m surprised the right-wing tea partiers are reading this comic strip in the first place! After all, they HAVE no sense of humor! And most of those with no sense of humor, have no sense, period, as far as I’m concerned. Non Sequitur is one of the best strips!
michaelrafferty over 13 years ago
As this string of comments demonstrates, there is no certainty to any quotation from 2,000 years ago. This one is, however, consistent with others attributed to Jesus regarding the danger that wealth will be a barrier to the kingdom of heaven.
It is the distinction between “money is the root of all evil” and “the love of money is the root of all evil.”
kaystari Premium Member almost 13 years ago
you need to broaden your imagination, and information, about what Heaven will be like. Your waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off.