If doing something good for someone makes you feel good, everybody wins. If you use that act of goodness to put yourself above others, everyone loses. So just do it & enjoy the feeling.
Gweedo, I am going to try to use the expression “Metaphorical balls” in a conversation sometime today. Don’t know if I can, but I’ll have a literal ball trying.
Zuhlamon, the cycle may be “endless”, but it’s not universal. After the initial rush of idealistic euphoria, there’s certainly a plateauing effect when you realize you can’t help everybody, but there’s always the possibility of helping somebody. I’ve heard teaching follows the same pattern; making a difference for the students who WANT to learn makes up for the indifference (if not hostility) of all those who don’t.
It was Immanuel Kant who made most explicit the notion that morality consists of living for others with no benefit to oneself. The slightest hint of self-interest was enough to completely taint the act, no matter what it was, and render it no longer moral. The end result is the complete subjugation of self and a readiness to be led by the whatever dictator comes along. Ever wonder how Germany, the most educated nation in the world, could end up Nazi? There is a direct line between Kant and Hitler.
Contrast this to America’s recognition of your right to pursue your happiness. The Declaration wasn’t just of independence from Britain but also of independence from others as the source of your self-worth.
@fritzoid – I disagree. While I’m not a randian and while I believe societies need some selfless acts (in the traditional, not randian, sense) to prosper, altruism is not necessarily synonymous with actual morality. A Spartan mother who gives up a sickly baby even though she’d rather raise it may be acting in what she’s told is society’s best interests (whether it is or not.) But her act may still be “selfless.”Just because a person selflessly sacrifices their life for an ideal doesn’t prove that that ideal is morally correct. There were no doubt people who gave their lives for Nazi-ism or Communism in the sincere belief that they were helping some general group. The purity of one’s intent is not a proxy for the goodness of one’s result. And that works the other way around, as well. I cannot count the number of times that people have assumed that bad results necessitated bad or selfish motives. It took me a long time to understand the truth of the saying “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
ahser about 13 years ago
mona’s my soul mate!! agree with Ms Montrois, it applies to many pple, sad but true.
hawgowar about 13 years ago
Mona had better quit while she’s ahead, and still in one piece.
Sisyphos about 13 years ago
Donna rules! Mona is just too cynical to be taken seriously. Sock it to her, Donna!
cdward about 13 years ago
If doing something good for someone makes you feel good, everybody wins. If you use that act of goodness to put yourself above others, everyone loses. So just do it & enjoy the feeling.
Ray_C about 13 years ago
Gweedo, I am going to try to use the expression “Metaphorical balls” in a conversation sometime today. Don’t know if I can, but I’ll have a literal ball trying.
Ray_C about 13 years ago
Actually, I guess that would be a figurative ball.
The missing M. Smokey about 13 years ago
Watching these ninnies fight does wonders for MY self-esteem.
TheDOCTOR about 13 years ago
Donna SCARY! Goes into corner and curls into a ball.
fritzoid Premium Member about 13 years ago
Zuhlamon, the cycle may be “endless”, but it’s not universal. After the initial rush of idealistic euphoria, there’s certainly a plateauing effect when you realize you can’t help everybody, but there’s always the possibility of helping somebody. I’ve heard teaching follows the same pattern; making a difference for the students who WANT to learn makes up for the indifference (if not hostility) of all those who don’t.
pschearer Premium Member about 13 years ago
It was Immanuel Kant who made most explicit the notion that morality consists of living for others with no benefit to oneself. The slightest hint of self-interest was enough to completely taint the act, no matter what it was, and render it no longer moral. The end result is the complete subjugation of self and a readiness to be led by the whatever dictator comes along. Ever wonder how Germany, the most educated nation in the world, could end up Nazi? There is a direct line between Kant and Hitler.
Contrast this to America’s recognition of your right to pursue your happiness. The Declaration wasn’t just of independence from Britain but also of independence from others as the source of your self-worth.
fritzoid Premium Member about 13 years ago
I invoke Godwin’s Law, pschearer. It’s patently clear that if altruism leads to genocide, it is no longer in any way altruism.
I also will draw your attention to Hillel, who said “If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, what am I?”
It’s a question of balance.
RonBerg13 Premium Member about 13 years ago
@Gweedo Murray, I can’t believe you had the metaphorical balls to make that comment.
RonBerg13 Premium Member about 13 years ago
Oh. and you too, Ray C…
Tantor about 13 years ago
mona is probably right, but it is a win-win situation for donna and the homeless people. so mona should not spoil it! MONA, SHUT YOUR HOLE!
wiserd about 13 years ago
@fritzoid – I disagree. While I’m not a randian and while I believe societies need some selfless acts (in the traditional, not randian, sense) to prosper, altruism is not necessarily synonymous with actual morality. A Spartan mother who gives up a sickly baby even though she’d rather raise it may be acting in what she’s told is society’s best interests (whether it is or not.) But her act may still be “selfless.”Just because a person selflessly sacrifices their life for an ideal doesn’t prove that that ideal is morally correct. There were no doubt people who gave their lives for Nazi-ism or Communism in the sincere belief that they were helping some general group. The purity of one’s intent is not a proxy for the goodness of one’s result. And that works the other way around, as well. I cannot count the number of times that people have assumed that bad results necessitated bad or selfish motives. It took me a long time to understand the truth of the saying “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”