Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for July 09, 2012

Are they honeymooning in Iowa?

Buddy of mine caught an EFP through the engine compartment of his MRAP – he still has some issues and no one got seriously injured in that IED…Think this is one of Mr. Trudeau’s best comics. The 3rd panel is just…Spot on.

Orion

Sorry! Sorry!Sorry!

Why is a one eyed man driving in the first place? Is that legal in most US states?

sometimes it works out this way…only time will tell

Ouch.

Does anyone happen to have the date of / link to the strip(s) showing the original incident?

As they say on Car Talk, if nothing ever happens, you won’t have any stories to tell!

December 03, 2007:

http://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/2007/12/03

I hope that Joe Walsh doesn’t think that Toggle is talking about this too much …

word. genius & truth.

war is hell, war is not heck. Bin Laden had nothing to do with Iraq except to provide an excuse for the “Crusades” & up Bush’s post -cheerleader macho cred. the end result was to unify anti-American militants, swell their ranks, and provide another justification for ongoing, endless war 4oil economy – and you bought the propaganda hook, line & death & devastation in the name of patriotism. an illegal, immoral war.

@GuardSeargent: Afghanistan was a justified war but it has been proven over and over that bin Laden had no connections to Iraq. The Iraq war was just Bush’s pet project.

Unfortunately, PTSD is the least of Toggle’s concerns. Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy is going to be a major illness for vets in the meaningless waste (except to Halliburton’s bottom line) of blood and treasure that are the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, better known as “the war on terror”.

I still have the article from that liberal rag, The Wall Street Journal, that outlines how George W. Bush instructed his transition team (i.e. before he was even in office) to start drawing up battle plans for Iraq. This was well before 9/11/2001. You want to tell me he did this to defend America? The terrorist attack on 9/11/2001 just provided enough of a smoke screen for Mr. Bush to push through his own private war. And as Babka accurately points out, Iraq may have had a dozen terrorists before we invaded (probably fewer) but now has hundreds and maybe even thousands who hate America when they didn’t even think about us before.

“If we didn’t go to Iraq . . . we would have had mnay more 9-11s”Dear God Almighty. Do we really need to go through this over and over and over again?? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. There were no al-Qaeda in Iraq before our invasion. There were no al-Qaeda in Iraq during our invasion. There were ONLY al-Qaeda in Iraq after we were there for many years, since we gave them a new target-rich opportunity.George Bush admits the truth of this. So does Rumsfeld. So does Powell. So does the head of the CIA at the time. So does everyone involved with decision. And ALL of them on video. And even – finally – kicking and screaming – did Dick cheney admit thereof.

Look, guys: the metaphor is…when you have an alligator problem, you drain the swamp where they breed and crawl out of. Yes, it’s been more than messy, cruel, stupidly operated a LOT.

And yet we’ve had Arab Spring…think about it a bit. Nothing is black and white…

Nobody came home “uninjured”.

Afghanistan, yes. Iraq,no. IEDs were devised in Iraq from the ordnance we passed by rather than disposing of when we had the chance. There are still stashes of it buried in Iraq.

In the first panel, Leo/Toggle is already in the flashback. Alex NEVER calls him Toggle, always Leo.

Sometimes your stupid comments are even more entertaining than what GT puts in the strip. Please continue posting …. you’re nuts, but you bring a smile to my face.

there is no “winning” any more, not in this world. there is today Afghanistan tomorrow the world. as long as this “nuk-u-lar”-peppered planet lasts. IED’s ‘r’ us.

What is so novel about a stripped-down vehicle for Alex to point it out? Are they playing some game to entertain themselves?

as Diggitt said, Alex is not pointing it out, Leo (in a flashback experienced in the present) hears his sergeant pointing out danger. In panel 3 it’s Alex’s voice in the mouth of his phantom sergeant, trying to break through his flashback.

While everyone got off on the feed-the-troll tangent, the main point of the strip, however wry, is that PTSD and flashbacks are recurrent and can be triggered by the slightest little things, colors, light, sounds, etc.Flashbacks can persist for years and years or lay dormant in the brain and suddenly, after 40 years recur . Many of us who were in Vietnam have experienced this, in one form or another.We, as a public, need to be aware, empathetic, and willing to SPEND the dollars needed to treat these men and women.

Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. Our invasion did nothing to increase the safety of America…as a matter of fact, watching us getting bogged down in Iraq heartened and strengthened our enemies. The killing of innocent bystanders has created millions more people with a good reason to hate us. Al Qaeda in Iraq did not even exist until we destabilized the country.

Granted, Saddam was an evil bastard of a dictator, but there are a lot of those still around, and the United States doesn’t seem to have a problem with the ones that will work with us.

Our invasion of Iraq has been Bin Laden’s greatest success. Al Qaeda spent the lives of less than a dozen people and probably less than a million dollars on 9/11…look at the thousands of American soldiers who sacrificed their lives, and the hundreds of billions we have spent to “make ourselves safe” since then. Bin Laden knew he could never conquer the United States, but he could, and did, force us to do immense damage to ourselves.

Sorry, you’re right. It just infuriates me to see such idiotic thoughts posted in a public forum.

Yes, the Guard is so far off in right-wing crazy territory, he’ll never listen to logic, but I sometimes hope that pointing out the blatant flaws in his arguments will prevent others from going down that path. It’d probably be more effective to push for education reform…too many Americans are showing a lack of critical thinking skills.

We’ll never know if Bin Laden planned it that way, but 9/11 has to go down in history as one of the most successful military victories for the bad guys. At a cost of roughly $500 million, 19 hijackers lives, and a few low grade weapons this is what they accomplished:- 3000 dead in the Towers;- Two iconic buildings in the heart of NY destroyed;- The Pentagon seriously damaged;- Four passenger planes destroyed;- Airline travel in the U.S. and around the world seriously disrupted;- Thousands of American military personnel killed in the two reactive wars;- Hundreds of thousands of military personnel injured, maimed, and traumatized;- Hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians killed and injured, assuring hatred of Americans for evermore;- American reputation abroad in tatters;- Trillions spent on the reactive wars;- The home economy seriously damaged and indebted for decades to come;.al-Qaeda could not have been so successful without the Americans falling into their trap..Emboldened by success, will they or other terrorists not be looking to repeat? .A good time to elect cool-headed leaders looking for ways to eliminate wars, not create them.

As to the ‘toon, been there, done that. After 37 years of serious “flashbacks”, many timesa week, got some help from a shrink, and they’re now only “occasional”. My son has the same problem after Bosnia, Iraq, and Elsewhere, and has been getting some help with it, but it doesn’t go away overnight.

Guard REMF has confirmed his “experience level”, and can now stop pontificating. PTSD comes from mortars, rockets, IEDs, bullets, and CONTINUOUS STRESS, over a period of exposure, like MANY convoys amon the “hostiles”,not a singular, “non-stressor” trip “outside the wire”.

“Welcome home” is btw, the proper, and best accepted greeting for those who’ve done what nobody should be asked to. "Thanks for your service’ just brings memories of “services” you internally regret having provided.

flashback or not, cornfields in Iowa aren’t just for makin’ corn!

Can’t you traumatized vets ever have a flashforward. Even peace junkies with drug histories have flashbacks.

You, sir, are an idiot.

You have a very naive view of Bin Laden. He probably did not expect quite the response he got from 9-11, but when we attempted to occupy and foster ‘democracy’ in Afghanistan, we played right into his plan. Bin Laden wanted the U.S. to waste resources and squander political influence there. He wanted us to help him recruit new members.When Bush invaded Iraq, Bin Laden must have felt like his wildest dreams were coming true. We toppled a secular regime that Al-Qaeda despised and created a whole slew of recruits for Bin Laden’s misguided jihad. Now, we have corrupt regimes in Iraq and Afghanistan, with no particular loyalty to the U.S. Unfortunately for Al-Qaeda, Iran was better prepared to take advantage of Saddam’s ouster.Anyone who thinks fighting Al-Qaeda or other terrorist groups with regular combat troops is a good idea, just doesn’t get it. These organizations are not nations. They don’t have armies. They will avoid any direct confrontation or a ‘fair fight’. You can call it cowardly, but terrorism and guerrilla tactics are the best way for a small group to fight a large one. Convincing Al-Qaeda and other groups to give up violence and use political means would be an improvement, but it’s not happening anytime soon. Letting the locals figure out that helping these groups is bad for them is the only way we will ever eliminate them. Thanks to you, and to all who serve our country. I don’t blame the troops for what our politicians decide.

So we were supposed to “fold” because we lose a few buildings and a few thousand people? The Emperor of Japan couldn’t take us down with the military power of a nation, but Bin Laden was going to do it with a few terrorists? Ridiculous.

No, Bin Laden’s win came from the knee-jerk reaction of a short-sighted, ideologically blinded leader with the initials GWB. Read Gypsy’s post above, where Bush’s huge failure is described in better detail than I can manage. (Thanks, G)

Ok, massive flaw #1:

If Obama is not eligible, why is the GOP giving him a free pass on the issue? Bill O, Glen Beck, McCain, and nearly every other GOP politician and mouthpiece of any significant stature have admitted that he is qualified. The cut-throat nature of today’s politics would demand that the Republicans use all reasonable means to win. The only logical reason for not pushing the issue is that they know there is actually no issue at all.

I think the reason it was “rather easy” for you, is that you are too stupid to realize the danger you and your buddies were in. Those who did know, still have the flashbacks of “what if.”

@Astolat11/27/2007 for start of Toggle series and 12/3/2007 for IED sequence.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197051/Saddam-Hussein-called-Osama-bin-Laden-zealot-afraid-Iran-U-S—FBI-reveals.html

This strip is not a rerun.

Guard: Hmm: Well, “Fascism” is extreme RIGHT WING government, where “industry” and corporations RUN THE GOVERNMENT, and under a dictator. (It’s “General Bullmoose” in control!)

Spec Ops do NOT depend on many “boots on the ground to back them up”. THEY are the boots that prepare the intelligence for the rest, or, use small teams to gather intelligence, and “take care of it” themselves. I know because my son spent five years there.(out of 13 years service) I also worked with some of these folks 47 years ago as the “techniques” were being developed, and a number of friends were “Pathfinders”, another group few civilians, or even military, know much, or anything, about.

Back to the ’toon!!

Hopefully, as I found in MY life, the newlyweds will “adapt” as Alex learns the inner workings of Toggle, and they will develop a long, happy marriage through understanding. My “significant other” has stuck by for 43 years, and a number of “trials” before VA learned to help us, once the military confessed a “problem” did exist!

BTW: had a conversation with a retired Guard officer who’d served in Iraq yesterday. The Guard is NOT the same as in Viet Nam era, and now carry much of the load (if not most) in our current invasions and transgressions. I DO give them credit where credit is due for their service.

Also, I should have noted that, yes, a “singular” extremely traumatic event, as we USED to have to document, CAN cause PTSD, even chronic. It IS a serious condition,

But sadly, many “fakers” ARE trying to use it as an excuse for payments, just because they “served”, whether regular, or Guard. It’s putting real pressure on VA, to sort out the those truly in need of care and treatment, NOT just “cash for life”. REMFs who never left Qatar, Kuwait, or elsewhere ARE making claims, and getting cash while declining treatment. That IS a relatively new “problem” on the scale we’re now seeing.

Exactly what part of history do you think I missed?

The astounding thing about you is that you can post the most ridiculous, baseless nonsense I have ever seen on the web, yet still think YOU are the only smart one, and you need to educate all us dumb “libs”.

So while Bin Laden was hiding in Pakistan laughing his ___ off at the stupid Americans stepping into the quagmire that was Iraq, what is it that was being proven to him? I can tell you. He learned that America can be “baited” into doing some incredibly dumb things to themselves. We were killing our own young men, damaging our own economy, eliminating one of his enemies for him, providing him with millions of new recruits who hated the U.S., and even providing him with the chaos and cover to actually move into Iraq , a place he was unable to operate in before we gave him a chance. We were also alienating our own allies with our aggression – allies we need if we are ever going to significantly reduce international terrorism. How could any of this possibly hurt Bin Laden or the original AQ?

Wars are fought between nations. What nation are we fighting against?

No, this is merely the tracking down and capturing/killing of those who committed an act of mass murder. Why would you call that war?

“I don’t have a clue why…”

That’s because there is no logical reason. You hit right on the truth, then skip over it because it doesn’t fit your preconceived notions.

“You have forgeries, stolen SSAN…” No, I don’t. I have not seen any conclusive evidence of either, only speculation from right-wingers like yourself.

Sherriff Joe is a stupid yahoo who will be run out of Hawaii by local officials who are evidently getting very tired of being annoyed by conspiracy theorists who won’t give up.

Obama has launched three times more drone strikes than in the entire Bush presidency. Obama has decapitated al Qaeda leadership. Obama killed Bin Laden.

we need too kill them with special forces and missiles..get the regular troops the eff out of there

Duh. The entire world has known for years that Saddam had chemical weapons…he used them against Iran.

The “intelligence” Bush used as justification was supposed evidence of nuclear weapons, which really didn’t exist.

“Oops, another thing. I STILL BELIEVE THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT HAD (AND STILL MIGHT HAVE) WMDS.” Uh, it’s not the same government. They can’t “still” have them.

So you actually still believe that, despite the fact that there is zero evidence of any benefit to the United States? Look back up at Gypsy8’s list of what 9/11 cost the U.S. Most of the cost was not direct damage by AQ, but the immense cost of Bush’s overreaction.

@Spaghettus1

Maybe you are right, they can’t “still” have them. Maybe Iran has them instead. How does that make you feel? I think you believe we should just give up on this war, but I also think anyone who does something this evil (Oh yeah, Bush is “evil”, but you probably can’t think anything “evil” our current president has done).

I have always thought Bush was a good president at tackling terrorism. Bush’s big problem is that he SPENT TOO MUCH DAMN MONEY LIKE A DEMOCRAT. Obama has spent MORE DAMN MONEY IN HIS TERM THAN GEORGE BUSH. How does that make you feel?

Oh yeah, at what price is human life? Islamic fanatics want us to quit, lie at all at all costs (It’s ok to lie, according to the Koran), and have their sick fantasy of having a one-world government that resembles Afghanistan (Taliban-style).

You can’t trust no one who lies and take these words from SC Native, Aaron Tippon: “You have to stand for something or you will fall for anything.” Spahettus1, I think you will fall for this for sure.

I think poor “Don” injected too much “Rush” today! OD’s are dangerous!

how come there always has to be some kind of debate for every doonesbury strip? why can’t anyone just say they like the strip or not?

Obama has launched three times more drone strikes than in the entire Bush presidency. Obama has decapitated al Qaeda leadership. Obama killed Bin Laden.

What makes you think YOU are the source of all good information, and I am somehow incredibly misinformed? What are your sources? Do you, on a regular basis, get news from several different sources, including one that doesn’t originate in the United States? I certainly do.

And, to show I do honor the truth, some of my fellow liberals have chimed in to say Clinton wasn’t impeached. He was, by the Republican-controlled House on a very partisan vote. What’s missing to the story is the fact that an impeachment is essentially and indictment, and the “trial” that would have determined guilt never went anywhere.

I heard a story yesterday from Afghanistan about a family that lost the father in a U.S. airstrike while he was tending sheep. His 9-year-old son carries a picture of an American jet as his most prized possession. Revenge is his life’s goal now, and with few educational or economic opportunities available as alternatives, it’s a course he may stay on. If not him, he has brothers and sisters.

If Saddam and OBL ever worked together, they certainly weren’t doing it in 2001 or 2003. Osama called Saddam and his secular regime one of the biggest threats to Islam outside of the United States. They hated each other. So, Iraq had nothing to do with fighting terrorists.

What I hate is misinformation and misrepresentation. Point out one “left wing lie”, that I have posted, with proof that it is such. I don’t think you can.

Did I say we didn’t need to act? No, stop putting words in my mouth. I said we didn’t need to go off on an unrelated tangent in Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11 in the first place.

@Spaghettus1 I have enjoyed your rebuttals of @Guard SGT. Thank you for your comments & your attempts to state your case.

BTW I often speak to young people in the forces about political events which affect their overseas postings. I’m always amazed by these young men & women, their energy, their extraordinary dynamism & their willingness to serve. I’m often surprised though by their lack of discernment in what they are told by their superiors. However, for the most part they are very open to different forms of analysis & manage to accommodate new ideas into their world view.

@Guard & @Donald Ostrem, I am usually not surprised when I hear such bellicose comments bundled together with a conviction of being totally, 100% correct! Such adamant & unyielding beliefs often go hand in hand with a lack of exposure to different ideas & with a certain lack of the stimulation that can come from being without such exposure.

I know this seems as if I am falling into the trap of criticising the person rather than the idea, & my apologies for this, but when I hear @Guard’s political classifications of Nazi Germany for example, I am quite shocked by such bizarre definitions.

That said, you did serve I believe, & you have my respect for that. There are several decorated vets within my family & it is a factor in our family’s world view that I have been aware of since I was a child.

My parent’s war was in Japan & the Pacific, I was brought up with an unambiguous idea of the moral rights of an invaded nation versus an invader. It has set the moral tone of most of my life. But it is a double-edged sword. Regardless of my great admiration for the United States, which I have felt since early childhood, our profile in the Middle East (as an Australian & an US ally) is that of an invader, & we will continue to reap what we sow there for decades.

My main interest in Afghanistan currently, is that it contains the world’s largest potential source of rare earth metals, elements crucial for your fancy iPhones, tablets, hybrid motor batteries, imaging optics through to guided missile systems. Rare earths (currently a monopoly stored by China) are the ‘oil’ of the 21st century. Afghanistan has the potential to be the Saudi Arabia of Rare Earths .. IF there is a stable, compliant Govt there to protect foreign investment.

Please remember, all those who share hatred of others, that all Wars have ultimately been a war for territory & resources. Even the long-suffering foot soldier of Japan’s WW2 Imperial Armies were convinced that they were fighting a noble war to ‘liberate the Brown Man of Asia’ from the heel of European colonialists .. when it was the crudest & most brutal & murderous theft & rape of nations in modern history. I’m NOT comparing the US & its allies to WW2 Japan, merely that it is easy for the outcome of our intentions to be obscured by imperfect perceptions of the culture & psychology of our opponents.

If in doubt, listen to former US State Secretary, McNamara, for his changed perceptions of the Vietnam war.

Friends of mine were in NY on 9-11, we cried for their horror & grief. The only legacy of Iraq for me however, is the horror of the endless stories of revenge, beheadings & the vilest tortures of civilians imaginable.

I know of these from NGO’s, embedded journalists, documentary makers, cameramen & service men & woman from the US & Australia. Whether we like it or not, what we did was stir up a region of unrest & a grotesque civil war, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians & the deaths & maiming of thousands of the most remarkable young people of our generation.

Last!

To Mr. Clark Kent…Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11…Afganistan in a way did..as Guard Sgt so aply says to you..get your facts straight and because of Bush and the rest decision we spent over a trillion plus the deaths and wounded to u , allies and the iraqui’s too..Yes Saddam is gone but again..had nothing to do with 9/11.

@Guard SGTWell, I guess we will continue to disagree with each other’s conclusions & reasoning.I’m sure your experiences in Iraq were very instructive, I would never try to take that away from you. But you have chosen to focus on the theoretical differences between Nazi Germany & Soviet Russia as one of the key basics of your argument. Regardless of their political orientation they were both an abomination & a grotesque aberration of the human spirit, more to do with the arrogance of power & a monumental hatred of humanity than left wing vs right wing I believe.

No one, & certainly no one of the ‘Left’, would condone such a backward sliding. The only people who make such a connection between Socialism & the Left these days are those who still pore avidly over the writings of Ayn Rand. I know .. because I used to : )

Anyway, after all that I thank you for your comments regards the Aussie servicemen & women. That was very kind of you & very much appreciated.

see how beautifully “divide & conquer” works?

“…Consittutionality (sic) of the Usurper in the White House and his many real crimes. Point made.”No, point not made. The sane and intelligent people in this country, including leaders of the GOP, do not share your warped and biased view. You can’t stand BO as president, and are determined to misinterpret the Constitution and a couple of Supreme Court rulings to make your case.

So if Saddam was paying terrorist to attack Isreal, that means we must spend hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of American lives to stop him? How many other countries have sent bombers to Israel? Do you think we can afford to invade them all? No, it should have been a matter for the UN. I know it can be frustrating waiting on them to act, but it is much better than the alternative.

As for WMDs, we spend years facing off with the USSR, knowing the entire time they had thousands of nuclear warheads aimed at us. Flash forward to 2003, and the mightiest nation on earth is scared of a poor Arab nation than can’t even construct a warhead or ICBM? Preemptive invasion under those circumstances makes the US look like a paranoid bully.

And I never heard any mention of the sources I asked about. Where are you getting this junk?

“But with you logic, we should have let this tragedy continue.”

By your logic, the US military should be the world’s police force, attacking anyone anywhere in the world who is doing evil. Sorry, we can’t afford that, and the rest of the world doesn’t appreciate it, at least not when we act unilaterally.

If some crazy right-wing religious group bombs a mosque in the Middle East, killing a couple thousand Muslims, are you OK with Arabs coming to America to hunt them down and kill them?

@Spaghettus1

“No, point not made” …. it had to be said : )

Of course it will make little effect on those determined to think otherwise.

Extremely difficult to find common ground with those of such differing views, .. but regardless, I have found your perspectives very interesting.

Keep up the Good Fight : )

“I do get my info from many sources.”Well, there are quite a few talk shows and websites that cater to those who have your views. That’s got to be it, because no reputable source of news is repeating that made-up garbage about stolen SSNs or forgeries. Or that fascism was a left-wing movement.

What?? You have just proven you know absolutely nothing about the way I think. When have I ever condoned murder? NEVER. And you completely missed the real point I was getting at. What if the attacked country insisted on being the ones to take out the stronghold of the bombers? Would you be OK with letting them in to perform a military operation on American soil? We’ve had thousands of troops stationed in the Middle East for 20 years now, even when none of the three wars were going on. We provide billions in military assistance to several ME nations that we call allies, and some of those weapons we supply have been used to put down internal dissent, or to attack other ME countries. I have a feeling many people in the region are getting damned tired of seeing Arabs killed with American weapons, especially when it happens to a family member or close friend. That’s one of the many reasons it was a bad move for the US to unilaterally attack Iraq, and why it likely will produce more terrorism than it stops.

“Drudge, Lucianne.com and WND”

Three blatantly conservative publications…that won’t give you a broad view, it will just reinforce the bias.

And please stop putting words in my mouth. Did I say my news sources were “perfect”? They appear to be a bit more varied than yours, but I’m pretty sure I’ve never called any news source perfect.

One more thing – Israel, among many others, new that Saddam had no nuclear weapons capability:http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2004/feb/04/iraq.israel

“They are about the only news source that is doing real journalism on these stories.”

No, they are the only ones you will accept, because they cater to your extreme views.