Bummer of a day, Rats have earned a bad name due to bad circumstances. Well I’m sure they earned a bad name before that, but it’s just going to spiral out of control now.
This time I can’t think of anything to say. It was a Dang, I’m tired. when tired I can’t spell. a girraffe. 21 dead. Was it worth it? never.. Not Ever.
He might be premature in saying the rats are “driven out” of Endtown. So, the score at this point is 21 one dead and 72 injured streetsiders, and…THREE rats dead? Violence takes seconds to unleash, but much longer than that to regret.
Regretably, my speculation on the character of the ammo used by the Rats (particularly large bullets in otherwise small pistol cartridges) would result in them being disproportionally destructive to the smaller than average human resident of Endtown. So much so that any single shot into the crowd would likely create multiple victims, all with devastating wounds. And if the Rats were fast on the reloads, each could have gotten off a hundred or more rounds. (I’m assuming the magazines held at least 50 rounds each) In full automatic fire, some poor soul would easily get several hits, then those in the background would also get hit by the over-penitrating slugs.
Being that Arron is telling the tale, the Rat crisis is far from over (above the HC plot and all that).
This wasn’t a tragedy that ‘just happened’. It’s a deliberate agenda by someone in power. I’m shocked by the body count. The person in power is evidently not, and is evidently planning to thurn up the pressure even more. WHAT is the agenda, at this price???
Surfstuff55: I gave an answer yesterday here at Endtown re Hillel or Akiva. * Everyone:* Are we absolutely certain three rats are dead? On May 2, 2013 we saw one rat down, probably with fatal injuries, and another seemingly running for the elevator where he died. One more rat was thrown into the bar. It seemed he was clubbed with a bottle and tossed through a window. I think it is possible he survived and bartender is hiding him. One, it would indicate not everyone but Doc, Wally and the Nurse had lost their senses.Two, I have a little problem thinking ANeathery would bring in a new character, a rat named Ben, and kill him off so soon.JusSayin
I don’t think the rats are responsible for all those casualties. A lot of them can be from friendly fire. Or someone could have seen an opportunity to kill people and blame the rats.
Nothing stops a public disturbance like fully automatic weaponry, and nothing starts a revolution quite like the aftermath of fully automatic weapon either.
There we go again.The Rats did not start this. Allee started a fight in bar over who is what.The Police was called but Rats showed up ordered folks to disperse. (Where was the LOCAL police)The anger raised by the fight now turned from Allee and her combatant to Authority. (That always happens. I know I have seen it before and had it happen before) A bottle was tossed hitting one causing him to accidentally fire his weapon. A bystander was killed. The crowd went from milling observers to now angry MOB bent on killing someone the Rats now the preferred targets. NO ONE HAS COME FORWARD AS THE BOTTLE TOSSER!!!!!That is the one who is to blame. This shows how little anyone REALLY knows what happened at this time. It may come out but right now its just easier to blame three rats trying to survive being torn to pieces by an angry mob. They chose shooting back over being ripped to death. I would have done the same thing.As far as body count and amount of deaths as I pointed out the weapon they used is similar in shape and design to the 4.8X30mm H7K MP7 50 round magazine capacity. That round has a 3000 foot per second velocity. It is designed to defeat level 4 body armor within 200 meters. I personally have fired the 5.56 M16 at multiples with the round penetrating 3 to 4 if they are close. That is why in my Department I frown upon using the M4 with that round at ranges less than 50 meters. The round just keeps going with a lot of kinetic energy to go thru some more. Given APEX wealth of knowledge about weapons I would assume they would create a very powerful round in a small package. They were weapon designers after all.
The posts show it again.Blame the Rats. As far as I can tell the only issues with the Rats was coming back from foraging and getting body cavity searches.Receiving Security sensitive documents and then printing out an editorial about it. Then getting your office shot up.Seizing three suspects accused by the High Council of Security breaches.Sure they tear up stuff. Have they been trained NOT to? We know nothing of their training or what they were initially created for.NO ONE EVER RAISED AN ISSUE ABOUT IT BEFORE!!!Jake never said a word about his office. Not a damn word.NOW ALL ARE SCREAMING FOR DEATH TO THE RATS!Again many show their true colors. Don’t try to fix the problem just attack and destroy it.JusSayin. Ben was one of those rats killed by the mob. I think he was the last one to reach the elevator. So close only to die at the door. At least his body won’t be mutilated. I wonder about the other two.You know what this reminds me of?Somalia-Blackhawk Down. Endtowners as the Somalians.The Rats as the first group of Marines sent in.
Violence and bloodshed will only lead to more violence and bloodshed. Somewhere it has to stop. Someone has to say Enough is Enough.Will it be the Rats. Come to this point I don’t think they have ever suffered a causality till now. They appear shocked.Endtowners?? Will they come to their senses? Or has “blood scent” now filled the air bring up those “animal” feelings. A Blood Lust rising in their Hearts??Having no Rats to attack do they now turn on each other? They have good cause. Those who were members of Allgood’s Society and those who believed in Jake’s philosophy. Allee started with accusing one’s husband of being a Society member and possibly on the council. Which started a fight which lead to the point we are now.The air is filled with the smell of blood. Tensions are to the point of breaking.What will be the next powder keg to go off.The fuse is still burning folks. No one has put it out….yet.
I kind of feel sorry for the Rats. I think when you have a population that is already disgusted and angry, then you mix in a government or authority that is stiring up trouble people many times take it out on “middle management”. The Rats are acting as the Police and the Military, they are not responsible for a lot of what’s going on but they are the face of said government. They end up having to deal with whats going on… getting called to break up a bar fight and having a mob suround you; I imagine would make me nervous. Even Scared. One bottle thrown at my head and I can imagine someone might open fire… purposely or not.
I can see how everyone hates them… it’s easy to see. but honestly they are acting on orders for what they most likely believe is best for Endtown.
I liked Ben. A lot of these rats have shown real faces lately… emotions rather then faceless beings holding guns. One step over the run of the mill every topsider looks the same with their mask look.
The rats are guilty of these acts:Poor trigger discipline that lacksControl of shooting accidentsIt happened TWICE! Does that make sense?Note bottle-rat-strike number one:He gets a whack; Spike gets the gunBut Number Two was much the sameHe’s hit and more rounds start to flameConsider possibilities:What if Endtowners killed all these?What if they grabbed those guns and shotAnd were not careful who they got?You see the climbing lines of fireThey had no skill, just mad desireThe bloodlust aimed at living ratGot splashed around, and knocked them flatThat’s inconclusive from these panelsBut history, in Endtown’s annalsMight just record this tragedyAs one that did not have to be.Yet there’s one other aspect hereThe rats went far to stoke this fearWith guns and rage they were quite freeLook how they took the poor Milk ThreeSo this act, too, is laid to themThey’ve primed the pump that flows so grimBut past these tactics, rage and suchA “Murder One” might be too much=|====/ Level HeadVote for Endtown 2.0And for Doc Rat, tooVote for Endtown ClassicThe Endtown ForumThe Endtown AuctionThe Endtown Books
From what I can see I am falling on deaf ears. I will withdraw from TRYING to show folks the real reason behind things. Go ahead. Demand ALL RATS MUST DIE!Its all their Fault. They are the NeoNazis from hell bent on destruction and death.They just show up and KILL KILL KILL DEATH DEATH DEATH. From what I have read that all you all most believe.Jump on the bandwagon ya’ll. Ride that train straight to Hell.I am just going to sit back and watch.Enjoy the ride.To quote from the Rockman in Nilsson “The Point”. “You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.”Don’t keep your mind open to other possibilities just jump on to something and ride it. Don’t search for the truth just follow the Mob.Even with out considering is it truth.
Let’s not forget that those deaths and injuries might not all be from gunshot wounds. Perhaps some got trampled in a stampede or died of fright related issues (i.e. heart attack, stroke,etc.). Maybe some of the stones meant for the rats hit bystanders. And let’s not forget that the rats weren’t the only ones firing guns. So called “friendly fire” might have caused some of the damage.
TSOJ, Thanks for that, I was not meaning to attack a poster. Just trying to show that the overt act that started all the shooting was not the Rats fault but from what I can see I am in the minority. I have heard poor trigger control. I say have you ever been surrounded by an angry mob bent on your destruction? You will have your finger on the trigger as you face them coming at you. I saw the same panels you did. Did the Rat fire first? Or after hit in the head by the bottle accidentally? When the mob turned angry after Spike and close in on the Rats now surrounded……what did you expect them to do. Like I said let them tear you apart? Did you suspect the mob may just take their guns and spank the Rats sending them home crying? You knew as well as I did that the mob was going to rip them into Rats treats. Matter of fact I remember back to some posters who actually cheered for that.All I have heard is its all the RATS fault. They are totally responsible. So be it. Like I said I am going to step back.I was not meaning to be disrespectful.
Nice thoughts but I have chosen to follow the Mob.Its all the Rats fault. No one elses. Not the crowd refusing to leave when ordered to disperse.Not the bottle tosser.NO one but the Rats fault. They showed up so blame them.And the Trial. All the Rats fault. Totally. All them. Not some plot to cause a problem. Not some trumped up charges. All the Rats fault again they showed up.Why chunk a brick at Allgood to start a riot he has how many followers? ONE! A one man riot. That would be something to see AND we can blame it all on the Rats and they did show up.They are pawns in this and we all know pawns are sacrificed so the real powerful figures can win. Just observing from the armchair. Comfy and secure.Oh new CallofDuty Black Ops II maps out today. Mayhem this weekend for sure.
I tend to agree, the whole mess started with a bottle being thunked on a rat’s head, who in turn, fired a weapon. I guess I am possibly analyzing it a bit myself… Were they “just” sent in for a bar fight? Do the rats always go with a minimal force, but no backup? Don’t they have radios, or some sort of comm device?? I really don’t think that the rats are the ‘brains’ behind HC. And we still, after all this, haven’t seen any police! (I see the rats more as soldiers, not police, per se.)
Oh, and Veteran, yes, Wally is a reluctant sort. But his girl is in trouble, as are her friends, and he sees the destruction coming from it. Reluctant hero might be born… But yes, Al, too would be a good choice. Obviously, we shall see what happens when our Mr. Neathery has more pages out. I have no crystal ball on these things…
The thought comes to mind that the security under Flask was, at the sharp end, all rats. Could this make people see security as not only all one uniform but all one species? Are there any other Endtown species who band together to do a common task?Good comments on both sides… @Veteran, good point about Bloody Sunday but wasn’t there supposed to have been someone (unknown) who fired the first shot- who wasn’t a paratrooper – ? There’s the bottle…Are we dealing with Bloody Sunday or Peterloo? How well drilled were the rats in dealing with difficulties in any way other than escalation to shooting? (There’s a reason British police are still unarmed except for batons)The story still has a long way to go. WHO is the shadowy figure pulling the strings? Velma? Allgood? Jake? or somebody as yet unknown…….. The trouble with unco-ordinated violence amongst panicking individuals is that the destruction expands uncontrollably.
Sure, some Rats made mistakes, following orders like they always have, and given free pass in the actions done in those orders. Again, it’s a question of mentality. You can say “If they chose to do it, then they’re still at fault.” While that’s true, if that’s how they’ve done things since the very beginning, possibly justified by “It’s the end of the world so all gloves off” then it’s no surprise they act so violently. They don’t use rubber bullets because they’re not a riot team, they were 3 Rats called out for a botched op where they expected to control a small scale bar fight. It got out of hand, they were ill prepared, that’s not the Rats’ fault, whoever dispatched them is using them improperly. Fingers on the trigger, sure poor trigger discipline, one Rat so far is at fault (within this isolated incident.) The safety probably wasn’t set because they’re facing an enormous mob of angry people, mobs can be great places for cowards to hide behind while taking pot shots (or throwing bottles.) Sent to do a job they weren’t equipped for? Again, bad dispatch, can’t hate on those Rats completely. Also FWIW, I see no viable way that firearm could operate, so the sky is the limit when questioning what kind of round it uses.
sigh So yeah, I’m sitting here, pondering, wondering, at what point does the Freedom of Assembly get trumped and become an Unlawful Assembly in this regard?.I’ve been told that the person who through the bottle is at fault, but was that when the group of people become unlawfully assembled? If this was about suppressing a rout from becoming a riot, then is 3 individuals armed only with fully automatic weaponry the best choice?.Or was this just a small domestic issue that didn’t need such a heavy-handed use of firepower?.Everyone has rights. The right to assemble, protest, to make their views known. As far as I know, gunning down civilians because the military decided to overstep their bounds, because they seemed to think this trial is a “STATE OF EMERGENCY” when it wasn’t…. yeah, I don’t see that right..I don’t blame the rats for feeling threatened. I blame the rats for WHAT THEY DID. Did the crowd do wrong by the bottle, yes, but does that call for gunning down all those people? And for what….Freedom? Protecting Endtown? If this is freedom, if this is protection, you’re safer outside Endtown with the giant monsters who roam the endless desert..I don’t blame Veteran for his views. I just feel that people have rights that are there to be protected.
Arcaton,It was terrorist who fired from the rear of the crowd on Bloody Sunday. Everyone seems to gloss over that fact. Instead of the group grabbing him and turning him in he was allowed to escape. They did not want to turn over one of their OWN. Why did they not turn him over? Fear of retaliation from the IRA if they did turn one over. Those folks had two fears. The IRA and British Occupying Forces. Help one get punished by the other. British you got jail if help IRA. IRA if you helped British they killed you and your whole family. It just escalated, mismanaged, poor communications, poor intelligence, officers lost control of their men, soldiers lost their discipline, not to mention the cover up and fabrication of facts afterwards. Once one soldier shoots?? It just escalates.
Stormwing,That is the issue. We compare Endtown to our universe. It is not the same. There are some commonalities but not an exact copy. We have no idea what all the rules are there. Endtown is basically as many see it in a War time footing. The war has never ended. It still rages on. Topsiders full time searching for all mutant destruction. This would preclude many freedoms we know about. Endtown maybe under full time STATE OF EMERGENCY. There may be many things in Endtown we know nothing about. Up until Flask and Linda I wonder how many more mutated Topsiders there are in Endtown. Linda’s past is not know publicly, neither was Flask’s. What if a leak came out about hundreds being one time Topsiders now mutants taken in by Endtown and other settlements. Many Topsiders may have chosen suicide over mutation but some may have not. Where would THEY go? Would you know as forager if the mutant you meet was recently a Topsider till his/her suit failed while sleeping?This may explain the reason for all the high level security. I can agree with lawful assembly, peaceful protests, as I have watched over those folks protecting their rights to do so. But this was not peaceful. It was a crowd at a fight. This was not a protest. It was a fight. You break up fights. You stop fights. But the crowd (as I have seen) can turn on you. I have broken up the fight only to get fought by the two I just broke up. They were fighting each other now they fight me. That’s two on one now. I put both into hospital. I did not want to but they would not stop or reason. If I had had to kill one of them to survive being attacked by two I would have done it. I instead broke one’s arm at the elbow and crushed the other one’s knee. I am 220 and in condition. The crowd that gathered watching the fight is what became my concern. They began to express I had over stepped my bounds. I had no RIGHT to do that. I was out of control. That crowd moved toward me grumbling, wanting answers, “Why you do that??”I heard one in Spanish say “Why don’t we kick his ass!” I drew my weapon. Finger on trigger leveled it straight at him and said in Spanish “You die first amigo!” The crowd pulled back slowly still grumbling. I removed my finger from the trigger but the weapon was still trained at the crowd.REALLY if we want to blame someone for all this blame Sparkplug for the Zero weapons he created. APEX for the war that resulted. Blame whoever created the virus that mutated humans into animals. Who ever created those danged Topsiders and their doctrine.There is enough blame to go around. Now is time for solutions not accusations and blame games.Love ya, Stormwing. I meant no harm.I can sometimes not get out what I mean. Yes, Rats share blame but not all of it. Not just all of it.
To be fair, the rats didn’t want this to happen. They may be lacking in manners and respond to all provocations with overwhelming force, but I doubt they had killed anybody till Spike was accidentally shot. The Lieutenant did not appear to want revenge when he addressed the voice of the council, he just wanted to restore order before more people got hurt.
mr_sherman, darwinskeeper,Thanks, sometimes I just have to breathe. Took some deep breathes and better now.That comment from Doc however does get me to thinking.“The Rats have finally been driven out of Endtown”It was 3 or 4 months since the end of the Flask saga to our start with Linda on this one. Makes you wonder what went on for that time once Aaron Marx left and went to Flask? Was the local Police force replaced by the Rat Security from above? Makes one wonder WHY? Forgive me and my sometimes paranoid way of seeing things but could all of this have been started maybe right after Aaron Marx POPS in without coming thru the normal entrances? THAT WOULD HAVE MADE SECURITY GO “WHAT??” Then before he could be handled, questioned, he opens a door and “poof” goes to where Flask is.This may have made Endtown feel very vulnerable that some one could entered THAT easily. It would have been viewed as a terrible breech in security. Rats may have been transferred to the lower levels in barracks or police stations in a just in case this happens again mode.But being they were never instructed on civilian matters they acted more like an occupying army rather than a protector police force. They only knew one way to be.I know our author will “hint” at things.
I agree with Lt. Rat in the next step, gas time. Quell the protests, then quell the HC, only let the sensible people speak afterwards. Too much emotion on both parties to come to a logical solution. Act now, force all threats to submit, then move along with sense, but it’s going to be hard to come by when extreme parties are pushing their agenda’s.
Mac! Wow and I though I could be militant?However once control is achieved can the ones who seized it be willing to let go of control?A coup d’état then return power to the sensible people?That’s what Castro promised! (In our universe)Its a good idea but the parties involved need to separate from this conflict. Neither one side or the other. Neutral.HEY, Mr. Neathery is there a SWISS underground settlement? That is really good, I mean really good.
MacEwanMouse over 11 years ago
Bummer of a day, Rats have earned a bad name due to bad circumstances. Well I’m sure they earned a bad name before that, but it’s just going to spiral out of control now.
JanBic Premium Member over 11 years ago
A lot higher body count than we knew.
pam Miner over 11 years ago
This time I can’t think of anything to say. It was a Dang, I’m tired. when tired I can’t spell. a girraffe. 21 dead. Was it worth it? never.. Not Ever.
RickD Premium Member over 11 years ago
He might be premature in saying the rats are “driven out” of Endtown. So, the score at this point is 21 one dead and 72 injured streetsiders, and…THREE rats dead? Violence takes seconds to unleash, but much longer than that to regret.
dirtyoldlady1 over 11 years ago
No comments.Blessed Be
stevegallacci over 11 years ago
Regretably, my speculation on the character of the ammo used by the Rats (particularly large bullets in otherwise small pistol cartridges) would result in them being disproportionally destructive to the smaller than average human resident of Endtown. So much so that any single shot into the crowd would likely create multiple victims, all with devastating wounds. And if the Rats were fast on the reloads, each could have gotten off a hundred or more rounds. (I’m assuming the magazines held at least 50 rounds each) In full automatic fire, some poor soul would easily get several hits, then those in the background would also get hit by the over-penitrating slugs.
Being that Arron is telling the tale, the Rat crisis is far from over (above the HC plot and all that).
Jenner Premium Member over 11 years ago
This wasn’t a tragedy that ‘just happened’. It’s a deliberate agenda by someone in power. I’m shocked by the body count. The person in power is evidently not, and is evidently planning to thurn up the pressure even more. WHAT is the agenda, at this price???
Ida No over 11 years ago
“Has Wally lost weight?”It’s the fur. His body is subconsciously making him into a smaller target. (Plus, he hasn’t eaten in 2 weeks.)
boreas2 over 11 years ago
the council wants to kill even more
they did say “the canals will be red with blood”
JusSayin over 11 years ago
Surfstuff55: I gave an answer yesterday here at Endtown re Hillel or Akiva. * Everyone:* Are we absolutely certain three rats are dead? On May 2, 2013 we saw one rat down, probably with fatal injuries, and another seemingly running for the elevator where he died. One more rat was thrown into the bar. It seemed he was clubbed with a bottle and tossed through a window. I think it is possible he survived and bartender is hiding him. One, it would indicate not everyone but Doc, Wally and the Nurse had lost their senses.Two, I have a little problem thinking ANeathery would bring in a new character, a rat named Ben, and kill him off so soon.JusSayin
Robert Nowall Premium Member over 11 years ago
…and Holly, Maude, and Linda are still imprisoned…
Coyoty Premium Member over 11 years ago
I don’t think the rats are responsible for all those casualties. A lot of them can be from friendly fire. Or someone could have seen an opportunity to kill people and blame the rats.
the other ghost girl over 11 years ago
Wally looks pretty shell shocked
Lyons Group, Inc. over 11 years ago
Wow. How many “people” those rats red-shirted?
salenstormwing over 11 years ago
Nothing stops a public disturbance like fully automatic weaponry, and nothing starts a revolution quite like the aftermath of fully automatic weapon either.
Robert Nowall Premium Member over 11 years ago
If there’s a trial of the Security Rats for murdering all these people, who’ll defend them? (John Adams probably isn’t around—-look that one up.)
Darwinskeeper over 11 years ago
“What is the point of living down here if we’re just going to kill our own?”Amen Doc Chase, you’re my kind of mutant.
Vet Premium Member over 11 years ago
There we go again.The Rats did not start this. Allee started a fight in bar over who is what.The Police was called but Rats showed up ordered folks to disperse. (Where was the LOCAL police)The anger raised by the fight now turned from Allee and her combatant to Authority. (That always happens. I know I have seen it before and had it happen before) A bottle was tossed hitting one causing him to accidentally fire his weapon. A bystander was killed. The crowd went from milling observers to now angry MOB bent on killing someone the Rats now the preferred targets. NO ONE HAS COME FORWARD AS THE BOTTLE TOSSER!!!!!That is the one who is to blame. This shows how little anyone REALLY knows what happened at this time. It may come out but right now its just easier to blame three rats trying to survive being torn to pieces by an angry mob. They chose shooting back over being ripped to death. I would have done the same thing.As far as body count and amount of deaths as I pointed out the weapon they used is similar in shape and design to the 4.8X30mm H7K MP7 50 round magazine capacity. That round has a 3000 foot per second velocity. It is designed to defeat level 4 body armor within 200 meters. I personally have fired the 5.56 M16 at multiples with the round penetrating 3 to 4 if they are close. That is why in my Department I frown upon using the M4 with that round at ranges less than 50 meters. The round just keeps going with a lot of kinetic energy to go thru some more. Given APEX wealth of knowledge about weapons I would assume they would create a very powerful round in a small package. They were weapon designers after all.
Vet Premium Member over 11 years ago
The posts show it again.Blame the Rats. As far as I can tell the only issues with the Rats was coming back from foraging and getting body cavity searches.Receiving Security sensitive documents and then printing out an editorial about it. Then getting your office shot up.Seizing three suspects accused by the High Council of Security breaches.Sure they tear up stuff. Have they been trained NOT to? We know nothing of their training or what they were initially created for.NO ONE EVER RAISED AN ISSUE ABOUT IT BEFORE!!!Jake never said a word about his office. Not a damn word.NOW ALL ARE SCREAMING FOR DEATH TO THE RATS!Again many show their true colors. Don’t try to fix the problem just attack and destroy it.JusSayin. Ben was one of those rats killed by the mob. I think he was the last one to reach the elevator. So close only to die at the door. At least his body won’t be mutilated. I wonder about the other two.You know what this reminds me of?Somalia-Blackhawk Down. Endtowners as the Somalians.The Rats as the first group of Marines sent in.
Vet Premium Member over 11 years ago
Violence and bloodshed will only lead to more violence and bloodshed. Somewhere it has to stop. Someone has to say Enough is Enough.Will it be the Rats. Come to this point I don’t think they have ever suffered a causality till now. They appear shocked.Endtowners?? Will they come to their senses? Or has “blood scent” now filled the air bring up those “animal” feelings. A Blood Lust rising in their Hearts??Having no Rats to attack do they now turn on each other? They have good cause. Those who were members of Allgood’s Society and those who believed in Jake’s philosophy. Allee started with accusing one’s husband of being a Society member and possibly on the council. Which started a fight which lead to the point we are now.The air is filled with the smell of blood. Tensions are to the point of breaking.What will be the next powder keg to go off.The fuse is still burning folks. No one has put it out….yet.
rooster2257 over 11 years ago
I kind of feel sorry for the Rats. I think when you have a population that is already disgusted and angry, then you mix in a government or authority that is stiring up trouble people many times take it out on “middle management”. The Rats are acting as the Police and the Military, they are not responsible for a lot of what’s going on but they are the face of said government. They end up having to deal with whats going on… getting called to break up a bar fight and having a mob suround you; I imagine would make me nervous. Even Scared. One bottle thrown at my head and I can imagine someone might open fire… purposely or not.
I can see how everyone hates them… it’s easy to see. but honestly they are acting on orders for what they most likely believe is best for Endtown.
I liked Ben. A lot of these rats have shown real faces lately… emotions rather then faceless beings holding guns. One step over the run of the mill every topsider looks the same with their mask look.
The rats have become a scape goat.
Vet Premium Member over 11 years ago
And Stormwing ED-209. These are living things not some dang machine or cyborg.
Level_Head over 11 years ago
The rats are guilty of these acts:Poor trigger discipline that lacksControl of shooting accidentsIt happened TWICE! Does that make sense?Note bottle-rat-strike number one:He gets a whack; Spike gets the gunBut Number Two was much the sameHe’s hit and more rounds start to flameConsider possibilities:What if Endtowners killed all these?What if they grabbed those guns and shotAnd were not careful who they got?You see the climbing lines of fireThey had no skill, just mad desireThe bloodlust aimed at living ratGot splashed around, and knocked them flatThat’s inconclusive from these panelsBut history, in Endtown’s annalsMight just record this tragedyAs one that did not have to be.Yet there’s one other aspect hereThe rats went far to stoke this fearWith guns and rage they were quite freeLook how they took the poor Milk ThreeSo this act, too, is laid to themThey’ve primed the pump that flows so grimBut past these tactics, rage and suchA “Murder One” might be too much=|====/ Level HeadVote for Endtown 2.0And for Doc Rat, tooVote for Endtown ClassicThe Endtown ForumThe Endtown AuctionThe Endtown Books
Vet Premium Member over 11 years ago
From what I can see I am falling on deaf ears. I will withdraw from TRYING to show folks the real reason behind things. Go ahead. Demand ALL RATS MUST DIE!Its all their Fault. They are the NeoNazis from hell bent on destruction and death.They just show up and KILL KILL KILL DEATH DEATH DEATH. From what I have read that all you all most believe.Jump on the bandwagon ya’ll. Ride that train straight to Hell.I am just going to sit back and watch.Enjoy the ride.To quote from the Rockman in Nilsson “The Point”. “You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.”Don’t keep your mind open to other possibilities just jump on to something and ride it. Don’t search for the truth just follow the Mob.Even with out considering is it truth.
twcowdery over 11 years ago
Let’s not forget that those deaths and injuries might not all be from gunshot wounds. Perhaps some got trampled in a stampede or died of fright related issues (i.e. heart attack, stroke,etc.). Maybe some of the stones meant for the rats hit bystanders. And let’s not forget that the rats weren’t the only ones firing guns. So called “friendly fire” might have caused some of the damage.
Vet Premium Member over 11 years ago
TSOJ, Thanks for that, I was not meaning to attack a poster. Just trying to show that the overt act that started all the shooting was not the Rats fault but from what I can see I am in the minority. I have heard poor trigger control. I say have you ever been surrounded by an angry mob bent on your destruction? You will have your finger on the trigger as you face them coming at you. I saw the same panels you did. Did the Rat fire first? Or after hit in the head by the bottle accidentally? When the mob turned angry after Spike and close in on the Rats now surrounded……what did you expect them to do. Like I said let them tear you apart? Did you suspect the mob may just take their guns and spank the Rats sending them home crying? You knew as well as I did that the mob was going to rip them into Rats treats. Matter of fact I remember back to some posters who actually cheered for that.All I have heard is its all the RATS fault. They are totally responsible. So be it. Like I said I am going to step back.I was not meaning to be disrespectful.
Vet Premium Member over 11 years ago
Nice thoughts but I have chosen to follow the Mob.Its all the Rats fault. No one elses. Not the crowd refusing to leave when ordered to disperse.Not the bottle tosser.NO one but the Rats fault. They showed up so blame them.And the Trial. All the Rats fault. Totally. All them. Not some plot to cause a problem. Not some trumped up charges. All the Rats fault again they showed up.Why chunk a brick at Allgood to start a riot he has how many followers? ONE! A one man riot. That would be something to see AND we can blame it all on the Rats and they did show up.They are pawns in this and we all know pawns are sacrificed so the real powerful figures can win. Just observing from the armchair. Comfy and secure.Oh new CallofDuty Black Ops II maps out today. Mayhem this weekend for sure.
knitkitty over 11 years ago
I tend to agree, the whole mess started with a bottle being thunked on a rat’s head, who in turn, fired a weapon. I guess I am possibly analyzing it a bit myself… Were they “just” sent in for a bar fight? Do the rats always go with a minimal force, but no backup? Don’t they have radios, or some sort of comm device?? I really don’t think that the rats are the ‘brains’ behind HC. And we still, after all this, haven’t seen any police! (I see the rats more as soldiers, not police, per se.)
Oh, and Veteran, yes, Wally is a reluctant sort. But his girl is in trouble, as are her friends, and he sees the destruction coming from it. Reluctant hero might be born… But yes, Al, too would be a good choice. Obviously, we shall see what happens when our Mr. Neathery has more pages out. I have no crystal ball on these things…
Arcaton over 11 years ago
The thought comes to mind that the security under Flask was, at the sharp end, all rats. Could this make people see security as not only all one uniform but all one species? Are there any other Endtown species who band together to do a common task?Good comments on both sides… @Veteran, good point about Bloody Sunday but wasn’t there supposed to have been someone (unknown) who fired the first shot- who wasn’t a paratrooper – ? There’s the bottle…Are we dealing with Bloody Sunday or Peterloo? How well drilled were the rats in dealing with difficulties in any way other than escalation to shooting? (There’s a reason British police are still unarmed except for batons)The story still has a long way to go. WHO is the shadowy figure pulling the strings? Velma? Allgood? Jake? or somebody as yet unknown…….. The trouble with unco-ordinated violence amongst panicking individuals is that the destruction expands uncontrollably.
MacEwanMouse over 11 years ago
Sure, some Rats made mistakes, following orders like they always have, and given free pass in the actions done in those orders. Again, it’s a question of mentality. You can say “If they chose to do it, then they’re still at fault.” While that’s true, if that’s how they’ve done things since the very beginning, possibly justified by “It’s the end of the world so all gloves off” then it’s no surprise they act so violently. They don’t use rubber bullets because they’re not a riot team, they were 3 Rats called out for a botched op where they expected to control a small scale bar fight. It got out of hand, they were ill prepared, that’s not the Rats’ fault, whoever dispatched them is using them improperly. Fingers on the trigger, sure poor trigger discipline, one Rat so far is at fault (within this isolated incident.) The safety probably wasn’t set because they’re facing an enormous mob of angry people, mobs can be great places for cowards to hide behind while taking pot shots (or throwing bottles.) Sent to do a job they weren’t equipped for? Again, bad dispatch, can’t hate on those Rats completely. Also FWIW, I see no viable way that firearm could operate, so the sky is the limit when questioning what kind of round it uses.
salenstormwing over 11 years ago
sigh So yeah, I’m sitting here, pondering, wondering, at what point does the Freedom of Assembly get trumped and become an Unlawful Assembly in this regard?.I’ve been told that the person who through the bottle is at fault, but was that when the group of people become unlawfully assembled? If this was about suppressing a rout from becoming a riot, then is 3 individuals armed only with fully automatic weaponry the best choice?.Or was this just a small domestic issue that didn’t need such a heavy-handed use of firepower?.Everyone has rights. The right to assemble, protest, to make their views known. As far as I know, gunning down civilians because the military decided to overstep their bounds, because they seemed to think this trial is a “STATE OF EMERGENCY” when it wasn’t…. yeah, I don’t see that right..I don’t blame the rats for feeling threatened. I blame the rats for WHAT THEY DID. Did the crowd do wrong by the bottle, yes, but does that call for gunning down all those people? And for what….Freedom? Protecting Endtown? If this is freedom, if this is protection, you’re safer outside Endtown with the giant monsters who roam the endless desert..I don’t blame Veteran for his views. I just feel that people have rights that are there to be protected.
Vet Premium Member over 11 years ago
Arcaton,It was terrorist who fired from the rear of the crowd on Bloody Sunday. Everyone seems to gloss over that fact. Instead of the group grabbing him and turning him in he was allowed to escape. They did not want to turn over one of their OWN. Why did they not turn him over? Fear of retaliation from the IRA if they did turn one over. Those folks had two fears. The IRA and British Occupying Forces. Help one get punished by the other. British you got jail if help IRA. IRA if you helped British they killed you and your whole family. It just escalated, mismanaged, poor communications, poor intelligence, officers lost control of their men, soldiers lost their discipline, not to mention the cover up and fabrication of facts afterwards. Once one soldier shoots?? It just escalates.
Vet Premium Member over 11 years ago
Stormwing,That is the issue. We compare Endtown to our universe. It is not the same. There are some commonalities but not an exact copy. We have no idea what all the rules are there. Endtown is basically as many see it in a War time footing. The war has never ended. It still rages on. Topsiders full time searching for all mutant destruction. This would preclude many freedoms we know about. Endtown maybe under full time STATE OF EMERGENCY. There may be many things in Endtown we know nothing about. Up until Flask and Linda I wonder how many more mutated Topsiders there are in Endtown. Linda’s past is not know publicly, neither was Flask’s. What if a leak came out about hundreds being one time Topsiders now mutants taken in by Endtown and other settlements. Many Topsiders may have chosen suicide over mutation but some may have not. Where would THEY go? Would you know as forager if the mutant you meet was recently a Topsider till his/her suit failed while sleeping?This may explain the reason for all the high level security. I can agree with lawful assembly, peaceful protests, as I have watched over those folks protecting their rights to do so. But this was not peaceful. It was a crowd at a fight. This was not a protest. It was a fight. You break up fights. You stop fights. But the crowd (as I have seen) can turn on you. I have broken up the fight only to get fought by the two I just broke up. They were fighting each other now they fight me. That’s two on one now. I put both into hospital. I did not want to but they would not stop or reason. If I had had to kill one of them to survive being attacked by two I would have done it. I instead broke one’s arm at the elbow and crushed the other one’s knee. I am 220 and in condition. The crowd that gathered watching the fight is what became my concern. They began to express I had over stepped my bounds. I had no RIGHT to do that. I was out of control. That crowd moved toward me grumbling, wanting answers, “Why you do that??”I heard one in Spanish say “Why don’t we kick his ass!” I drew my weapon. Finger on trigger leveled it straight at him and said in Spanish “You die first amigo!” The crowd pulled back slowly still grumbling. I removed my finger from the trigger but the weapon was still trained at the crowd.REALLY if we want to blame someone for all this blame Sparkplug for the Zero weapons he created. APEX for the war that resulted. Blame whoever created the virus that mutated humans into animals. Who ever created those danged Topsiders and their doctrine.There is enough blame to go around. Now is time for solutions not accusations and blame games.Love ya, Stormwing. I meant no harm.I can sometimes not get out what I mean. Yes, Rats share blame but not all of it. Not just all of it.
Darwinskeeper over 11 years ago
To be fair, the rats didn’t want this to happen. They may be lacking in manners and respond to all provocations with overwhelming force, but I doubt they had killed anybody till Spike was accidentally shot. The Lieutenant did not appear to want revenge when he addressed the voice of the council, he just wanted to restore order before more people got hurt.
Vet Premium Member over 11 years ago
mr_sherman, darwinskeeper,Thanks, sometimes I just have to breathe. Took some deep breathes and better now.That comment from Doc however does get me to thinking.“The Rats have finally been driven out of Endtown”It was 3 or 4 months since the end of the Flask saga to our start with Linda on this one. Makes you wonder what went on for that time once Aaron Marx left and went to Flask? Was the local Police force replaced by the Rat Security from above? Makes one wonder WHY? Forgive me and my sometimes paranoid way of seeing things but could all of this have been started maybe right after Aaron Marx POPS in without coming thru the normal entrances? THAT WOULD HAVE MADE SECURITY GO “WHAT??” Then before he could be handled, questioned, he opens a door and “poof” goes to where Flask is.This may have made Endtown feel very vulnerable that some one could entered THAT easily. It would have been viewed as a terrible breech in security. Rats may have been transferred to the lower levels in barracks or police stations in a just in case this happens again mode.But being they were never instructed on civilian matters they acted more like an occupying army rather than a protector police force. They only knew one way to be.I know our author will “hint” at things.
MacEwanMouse over 11 years ago
I agree with Lt. Rat in the next step, gas time. Quell the protests, then quell the HC, only let the sensible people speak afterwards. Too much emotion on both parties to come to a logical solution. Act now, force all threats to submit, then move along with sense, but it’s going to be hard to come by when extreme parties are pushing their agenda’s.
Vet Premium Member over 11 years ago
Mac! Wow and I though I could be militant?However once control is achieved can the ones who seized it be willing to let go of control?A coup d’état then return power to the sensible people?That’s what Castro promised! (In our universe)Its a good idea but the parties involved need to separate from this conflict. Neither one side or the other. Neutral.HEY, Mr. Neathery is there a SWISS underground settlement? That is really good, I mean really good.
ConstanzeN over 11 years ago
I say again…That the rats are the pawns in the bigger then life game of Chess. And, I’m wondering who is comtrolling the board and the pieces?
ThomasMazanec about 4 years ago
21 or 28 dead?