The Conversation — Can This Get Any More Pathetic?
Bret: In a way, I think Giuliani is doing the country an unwitting service by turning a vile conspiracy theory into a national punchline.
Or am I underestimating the damage he’s doing?
Gail: No, I’m going for the public service theory. The great danger in all this was that Donald Trump could somehow convince a large part of the nation to ignore the real election results and keep him in power.
Bret: He’s succeeding better in bamboozling his base than he is in holding on to power.
As he gears up for his presidency, one of the biggest dilemmas confronting Joe Biden is what to do with the sitting commander in chief.
Donald Trump’s refusal to concede and his fomenting of a farcical coup attempt are just his latest crimes against American democracy. As president, Trump cannot be charged with any crimes.
But after January 20, when Biden assumes the presidency, Trump’s protected status will end and he’ll be no more and no less than an ordinary citizen.
As such, Trump will be vulnerable to criminal prosecution. Already, there is an array of offenses that he can plausibly be charged with.
Trump’s impeachment amply demonstrated that he used the office of presidency for corrupt ends. The Mueller report, and Trump’s own words on many occasions, documented clear obstruction of justice.
Trump’s former lawyer Michael Cohen was sentenced and jailed for using campaign funds to buy the silence of the actress Stephanie Clifford (who goes by the stage name Stormy Daniels) over her sexual liaison with Trump.
As a private citizen, Trump can be charged for his own role in this matter.
The New York Times has documented that the Trump Organization has engaged in creative accounting that perhaps oversteps the law.
As the newspaper reported on Thursday, “Two separate New York State fraud investigations into President Trump and his businesses, one criminal and one civil, have expanded to include tax write-offs on millions of dollars in consulting fees, some of which appear to have gone to Ivanka Trump, according to people with knowledge of the matter.”
Beyond these cases, there are numerous acts Trump committed as president, such as his business deals with the Saudi government, that haven’t been sufficiently investigated because Trump was able to stonewall congressional oversight. (✁ 4 space)
But there is also the matter of justice, and there is no guarantee that what feels right now will look right through the longer lens of history.
Ford was widely assailed for pardoning Nixon. But one of his most outspoken critics at the time, Senator Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, later honored Ford with a Profile in Courage award, explaining that he’d been moved to rethink his views after witnessing the sprawling and protracted investigation into President Clinton by the independent counsel Ken Starr.
It may be time to rethink Ford’s decision once more;
it’s hard not to wonder if a Trump presidency would have been possible if Nixon had been criminally prosecuted rather than pardoned.
In that sense, the problem that Trump poses for Biden may also present an opportunity, a chance to repair more than just the damage of the last four years.
To begin with, this may require recognizing that when a president brazenly flouts the law, electoral defeat might not be enough of a punishment.
“There’s a mind-set that we need to reset,” Stephen Vladeck, a constitutional law professor at the University of Texas, told me.
“Breaking the law is not a political difference.”
It might also require recognizing that to really move on from Trump, “healing” may have to mean something fundamentally different from what it has in the past —
— and that without accountability, it may in fact be impossible.
Obviously, we all hope that he’ll be evicted/convicted and spend the rest of his life in solitary raging at a blank wall, but I personally believe he knows too much to survive very long if/when he gets evicted and after he’s arrested on state charges. Consider the following:
Do you think the RNC and all the Republicans who are currently being blackmailed by Russia, and have been taking millions of dollars from Russia, want him walking around, with everything he knows, knowing he has no filter and will flip on anyone to get ahead for himself?
Do you think our Intelligence agencies and the international IC want him walking around, with all of the highly classified and top secret information he knows, knowing he has no filter and will sell out anyone to get ahead for himself?
Do you think Bill Barr and others who have been implicated in the Epstein scandal want him walking around, with everything he knows, knowing he has no filter and will flip on anyone to get ahead for himself? Evidence indicates they already murdered Epstein.
Do you think Putin and Russia want him walking around, with everything he knows, knowing he has no filter…
To the six or seven unbalanced commenters that regularly “contribute” to this comments section. Who’s your next target, what do you do now that the reason for your existence the last 5 years is gone? I’ll make a prediction, it will be Joe “Xerox” Biden, much like Ouroboros you will turn on your own. Let me be first to say congratulations Madam President.
Trump is both an embarrassment and a secret boon to the GOP.
Trump lives large and sloppily, but he also get’s things done like with the Supreme Court and the 300 other Reich Wing ideologs appointed to other courts.
The Love of Money is . . . about 4 years ago
The future of America will be great again with our youth seeing how important it is to vote your conscience.
Cheapskate0 about 4 years ago
Scott is spot on today.
feverjr Premium Member about 4 years ago
I second that, Carmen….
…I also look forward to the reality show, “Donald and the SDNY”…..
…or it could be called, “The Accomplice”
braindead Premium Member about 4 years ago
Former president Trump, now private citizen individual one.
Walter Kocker about 4 years ago
Impeached President-Reject Donald Jessica Trump A.K.A. LOSER
Sanspareil about 4 years ago
Orange Donald in an orange suit in the prison cell!!
What could be more natural!
RobinHood about 4 years ago
“Are you ready boots start walking”
You keep lyin’ when you oughta be truthin’
You keep losing when you oughta not bet
You keep samin’ when you oughta be a’changin’
What’s right is right but you ain’t been right yet
These Boots Are Made For Walkin’
William Robbins Premium Member about 4 years ago
The Conversation — Can This Get Any More Pathetic?
Bret: In a way, I think Giuliani is doing the country an unwitting service by turning a vile conspiracy theory into a national punchline.
Or am I underestimating the damage he’s doing?
Gail: No, I’m going for the public service theory. The great danger in all this was that Donald Trump could somehow convince a large part of the nation to ignore the real election results and keep him in power.
Bret: He’s succeeding better in bamboozling his base than he is in holding on to power.
A# 466 about 4 years ago
That’s “former president*”.
Silly Season about 4 years ago
As he gears up for his presidency, one of the biggest dilemmas confronting Joe Biden is what to do with the sitting commander in chief.
Donald Trump’s refusal to concede and his fomenting of a farcical coup attempt are just his latest crimes against American democracy. As president, Trump cannot be charged with any crimes.
But after January 20, when Biden assumes the presidency, Trump’s protected status will end and he’ll be no more and no less than an ordinary citizen.
As such, Trump will be vulnerable to criminal prosecution. Already, there is an array of offenses that he can plausibly be charged with.
Trump’s impeachment amply demonstrated that he used the office of presidency for corrupt ends. The Mueller report, and Trump’s own words on many occasions, documented clear obstruction of justice.
Trump’s former lawyer Michael Cohen was sentenced and jailed for using campaign funds to buy the silence of the actress Stephanie Clifford (who goes by the stage name Stormy Daniels) over her sexual liaison with Trump.
As a private citizen, Trump can be charged for his own role in this matter.
The New York Times has documented that the Trump Organization has engaged in creative accounting that perhaps oversteps the law.
As the newspaper reported on Thursday, “Two separate New York State fraud investigations into President Trump and his businesses, one criminal and one civil, have expanded to include tax write-offs on millions of dollars in consulting fees, some of which appear to have gone to Ivanka Trump, according to people with knowledge of the matter.”
Beyond these cases, there are numerous acts Trump committed as president, such as his business deals with the Saudi government, that haven’t been sufficiently investigated because Trump was able to stonewall congressional oversight. (✁ 4 space)
~
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-prosecute-crimes-biden/
Silly Season about 4 years ago
The nation may desire healing.
But there is also the matter of justice, and there is no guarantee that what feels right now will look right through the longer lens of history.
Ford was widely assailed for pardoning Nixon. But one of his most outspoken critics at the time, Senator Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, later honored Ford with a Profile in Courage award, explaining that he’d been moved to rethink his views after witnessing the sprawling and protracted investigation into President Clinton by the independent counsel Ken Starr.
It may be time to rethink Ford’s decision once more;
it’s hard not to wonder if a Trump presidency would have been possible if Nixon had been criminally prosecuted rather than pardoned.
In that sense, the problem that Trump poses for Biden may also present an opportunity, a chance to repair more than just the damage of the last four years.
To begin with, this may require recognizing that when a president brazenly flouts the law, electoral defeat might not be enough of a punishment.
“There’s a mind-set that we need to reset,” Stephen Vladeck, a constitutional law professor at the University of Texas, told me.
“Breaking the law is not a political difference.”
It might also require recognizing that to really move on from Trump, “healing” may have to mean something fundamentally different from what it has in the past —
— and that without accountability, it may in fact be impossible.
~
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/magazine/trump-investigations-criminal-prosecutions.html
rossevrymn about 4 years ago
Something on which much of ’Merica can agree.
dotbup about 4 years ago
Obviously, we all hope that he’ll be evicted/convicted and spend the rest of his life in solitary raging at a blank wall, but I personally believe he knows too much to survive very long if/when he gets evicted and after he’s arrested on state charges. Consider the following:
Do you think the RNC and all the Republicans who are currently being blackmailed by Russia, and have been taking millions of dollars from Russia, want him walking around, with everything he knows, knowing he has no filter and will flip on anyone to get ahead for himself?
Do you think our Intelligence agencies and the international IC want him walking around, with all of the highly classified and top secret information he knows, knowing he has no filter and will sell out anyone to get ahead for himself?
Do you think Bill Barr and others who have been implicated in the Epstein scandal want him walking around, with everything he knows, knowing he has no filter and will flip on anyone to get ahead for himself? Evidence indicates they already murdered Epstein.
Do you think Putin and Russia want him walking around, with everything he knows, knowing he has no filter…
we5garay about 4 years ago
Not as much as inmate Trump!
RobinHood about 4 years ago
To the six or seven unbalanced commenters that regularly “contribute” to this comments section. Who’s your next target, what do you do now that the reason for your existence the last 5 years is gone? I’ll make a prediction, it will be Joe “Xerox” Biden, much like Ouroboros you will turn on your own. Let me be first to say congratulations Madam President.
cracker65 about 4 years ago
Amen sister.
Ricky Bennett about 4 years ago
Biden is not “President-elect” until after he’s officially elected by the Electoral College on December 14. Until then he’s still a candidate.
Night-Gaunt49[Bozo is Boffo] about 4 years ago
Trump is both an embarrassment and a secret boon to the GOP.
Trump lives large and sloppily, but he also get’s things done like with the Supreme Court and the 300 other Reich Wing ideologs appointed to other courts.
Scoutmaster77 about 4 years ago
As Chris Christie said about Trump’s attempts to subvert the election results, “It’s a national embarrassment.”
ragsarooni about 4 years ago
AMEN!
MAGA Premium Member about 4 years ago
Still not president-elect. F###k Biden.