I am always amazed at how many of the anti President Obama ultra conservatives on this site continually want to state that president Obama is still responsible for the number of ground troops in the Middle East! While President Obama certainly is not perfect on at least some issues (what president is?) this has got to be the biggest non-issue among the issues he is being blamed for.
The highest number of American ground troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan was in fiscal year 2008 (the last full fiscal year of the GW Bush administration). According to the Joint Chiefs of Staff report that total number was some 187,900 total ground troops. The same report has the number of total ground troops at some 63,000 total troops in Iraq (almost none) and Afghanistan at the end of 2012, the latest complete fiscal year for which such figures are available. This is a cut of 124,900 troops, or just about 2/3 rds of those in fiscal year 2008. Further cuts of about half of the remaining troops in Afghanistan will be made by February of 2014, and all such troops will be out of the Middle East by the end of 2014!
I personally believe this to be one of the major reasons that voters placed President Obama back into office for a second term!
The “left” isn’t under any trance. It’s obvious he isn’t perfect. Maybe he isn’t pushing hard enough and maybe he has compromised too much and maybe some of his own positions are to “middle of the road”. But still, Obama isn’t G.W. Bush — or McCain or Romney. And what’s more, for all the right-wingers criticizing the Vic President, we can also be glad that he’s not one of the Republican alternatives.
He tried darn hard to close Guantanamo, since it’s so useless and the American court system works so much better. It was cowards in congress who blocked his ability to do that. They even kicked a fuss when he had a recent terrorist sent for trial in New York instead of Guantanamo. New York courts have an brilliant record of trying terrorists, while Guantanamo has completed, what, two trials in over ten years? But the cowards aren’t giving up. They don’t want to admit that Guantanamo was a mistake.
Mr. Wuerker points out eloquently why so many on the ‘left’ are disillusioned with Mr. Obama. Despite the many accusations from conservatives about the President’s leftist agenda, the legislative evidence since he took offices shows he is ‘left’ on social issues, but right of center on business, nat’l security, and other issues that are important to progressive moderates such as me. Both parties seem comfortable with banks remaining too big to fail; with corporations creating effective monopolies on services and products; and with cooperating with the lobbyists of donors^. I wonder how long it will be before one party or the other gets enough of a majority to do to our country what Michigan is doing to cities in Detroit, and decide that voters in this country are not ‘responsible’ enough to vote for ‘sensible’ reforms, thereby justifying their supervention of our votes in order to put a “National Manager” in charge of the country.^The fortified institutions in Mr. Wuerker’s background lay a good foundation for enforcing a dictatorial gov’t and I do not trust either party to act in a Constitutional responsible way since they aren’t even able do the legislative jobs for which their states elected them’ and the states from whence they come are working so hard to create a one party oligarchy passing legislation friendly to donors and holding on to ‘allies’ by enforcing social issues that have nothing to do with the real purpose of gov’t….As zfacts says: “to require two old-fashioned conservative principles be joined to empathetic interpretation of three goals of government: to protect the public, promote the general Welfare, and stabilize the economy without wasting public funds, or not discouraging personal responsibility.”I dont trust either of these organizations to behave themselves.Respectfully,C.
When the left ran George McGovern, he was smushed. I’m on the left, I’d sure like to have a left president, but I’m also not stupid. If we want a left president, we need to make a left society that will elect her. In the meantime, if you get too far from the center, you’ll lose. But we should also keep up the pressure on Obama.
The real question isn’t “DOES he want his legacy to be war with Iran” it’s “does he want to AVOID that being his legacy so much that he’ll let them build a functional weapon before doing anything?”
If he doesn’t want it that badly, then he’ll forever be remembered for the aftermath, which given the mindset of the hands on the switch over there, is almost a foregone conclusion unless the Iranian people themselves hang the theocrats in the streets and city squares.
Modeling nuclear age defense policy after a 5th Century religious document is not a recipe for anything but disaster. Particularly given that absent the need to get it aloft there is virtually NO limit to the maximum size and yield of a thermonuclear device. In fact efficiency of the burn INCREASES with the amount of available fissile or fusible material in the device.
So because the right doesn’t like the President you think we share your views? Too funny. I am completly happy with the President. He got us out of the complete economic decline your Republican administration put us in. At least when he does attack a terrorst no American lives are lost or uprooted and transplanted 10,000 miles across the world. It is such a joke when ANY republicans complains about President Obama. You act as though you have zero knowledge of the shape your party’s eight years in the white house left us in. Two wars, a destroyed economy, huge job losses, a housing crisis. Hey Ima how did all that work out for you?
@ Howgozit – It’s never a waste to attempt thoughtful debate. For each person who comments on GC, there are many more who merely read the comments. In addition to having cause to feel some of my comments have opened minds and/or hearts, I have benefited from the many intelligently presented counterpoints to my comments, or simply my position. They open my own mind, and an open mind is like an open parachute, it provides a softer landing when one find themselves grounded in reality. Thank you for compliment. You need to work on those jabs. };>^@ Dycel – thank you as well. It seems we have many points of agreement. The special interests, however, are not just conservative. Unions, in particular, have been huge supporters of the Dems, and one of the reasons the Dems aren’t more practitioners of corporatism than they already are. The history of unions is noble in conception, but less so in practice. The first person of my high school class to die after graduation was killed when his brake lines were severed because he was a “scab” truck driver during a coal strike in the 70’s. Most unions are good and necessary, but suffer from the broad strokes applied to less ethical unions.^I just erased another two paragraphs.The short of it is this- when you accuse conservatives, you should use the word Republicans, and you cannot accuse Republicans as the only villain in this fiasco. To do so gives power to the Democrats, not liberals, but Democrats who are the willing accomplices to this game of divide and weaken being played in our capital. Conservatives and Liberals are supporting these parties who pretend to address their concerns, but who in fact, make the country more dependent on a very wealthy subset of people, some of whom don’t even live in our nation. International corporations are the ones to who the parties have allegiance because their money makes third parties impossible and keeps career politicians in office. We are just an inconvenience, but fortunately for them, easily manipulated by fear, religious dogma, and lies. The parties have more in common than you realize. They use that commonality to keep us from working together on those things we do have in common.Sadly,but respectfully,C.
it’s going great, thanks for asking.business is coming in, in waves of pent up demand in spite of the republican obstruction trying to destroy the economy. As a nation we are out of one misguided, expensive war and closing down another. And although mccaine and other republicans are insisting we get involved in a quagmire in Syria, I don’t see Obama falling for that same old BS.
my company is hiring, instead of losing 700,000 jobs a month under the bush administration, employment is actually on an uptrend, interest rates are incredibly low, my house value is many times higher than it was when I bought it 13 years ago – and i’m looking to cut thousands off my monthly mortgage by refinancing. In fact housing is roaring back throughout the country, and as you know, housing drives the economy. Corporate profits are great, the stock market continues to regularly set new record highs, taxes are about the lowest they’ve ever been.
even more importantly, civil rights are improving at a fast pace.
of course we still have serious problems in this country. Our children get mass murdered in their classrooms, classes of workers are getting attacked and we still offshore way too many jobs. Our government is polluted with money and influence from multi-national corporations that don’t need a place to ‘live’ and have no patriotism for the country. We have backwards states actually teaching creationism in the classrooms, and the government is illegally funding the catholic church to the tune of over 4.1 billion dollars per year. This gives the church undue influence on the government which allows it’s conspiratorial leaders to evade prosecution for their crimes of pedophilia.
but all in all things are much better than they would have been had the trend of the bush administration not been reversed.
things are improving slowly but surely. think how fast they could improve if the traitorous republicans would stand behind their president, like the democrats stood behind bush.
Peace is an excuse to do nothing. Peace doesn’t work. Do you want peace with cancer? Do you want peace with bullies or Freedom from diseases. We should stay in Afghanistan and give their people a hope for freedom, not run away because peace doesn’t work
“Interesting. Now compare the number of troop deaths Bush vs Obama regime.”Obama now has more troop casualties in Afghanistan, but Bush pretty much ignored Afghanistan. Bush’s total for Iraq/Afghanistan is still much higher than Obama’s.Do you support the lefties who never wanted our troops occupying those places in the first place? THAT would be interesting.
I have little time at the moment, Dycel. but I do NOT believe the Dems should be more corporate in their thinking. I also believe that it is only because of union donations that dems have been as conscious of the needs of the middle class workers as they have.Sorry if i implied anything other than that.this cartoon may be gone tomorrow, but my sanesaint@hotmail.com email address permits more detail into the debate. I simply wanted you to be aware that while the Dems offer the most ‘hope’ for liberals at the moment, were they to have “full power” in the legislature, the middle class could no more trust them than they currently do the GOP.this is not as eloquent or balanced as I prefer, but I have very little time at the moment.be well, dycelthank you for the reply, and the tone you set.it is through respectful discourse we can communicate best.sincerely,C.
Dude your tin foil hat is slipping off. You nut jobs on the right are truely loony. Oh yes I am sure a man who is President has set out to ruin his own country. Do you not even see how friggin’ insane comments like yours are? wow!
OmqR-IV.0 over 11 years ago
Ouch.
CybernautFT over 11 years ago
Double ouch.
WillardMBaker over 11 years ago
I’m surprised Homeland Security let them publish this. Maybe Freedom of Speech hasn’t been destroyed like the others, yet.
frodo1008 over 11 years ago
I am always amazed at how many of the anti President Obama ultra conservatives on this site continually want to state that president Obama is still responsible for the number of ground troops in the Middle East! While President Obama certainly is not perfect on at least some issues (what president is?) this has got to be the biggest non-issue among the issues he is being blamed for.
The highest number of American ground troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan was in fiscal year 2008 (the last full fiscal year of the GW Bush administration). According to the Joint Chiefs of Staff report that total number was some 187,900 total ground troops. The same report has the number of total ground troops at some 63,000 total troops in Iraq (almost none) and Afghanistan at the end of 2012, the latest complete fiscal year for which such figures are available. This is a cut of 124,900 troops, or just about 2/3 rds of those in fiscal year 2008. Further cuts of about half of the remaining troops in Afghanistan will be made by February of 2014, and all such troops will be out of the Middle East by the end of 2014!
I personally believe this to be one of the major reasons that voters placed President Obama back into office for a second term!
Yontrop over 11 years ago
The “left” isn’t under any trance. It’s obvious he isn’t perfect. Maybe he isn’t pushing hard enough and maybe he has compromised too much and maybe some of his own positions are to “middle of the road”. But still, Obama isn’t G.W. Bush — or McCain or Romney. And what’s more, for all the right-wingers criticizing the Vic President, we can also be glad that he’s not one of the Republican alternatives.
ARodney over 11 years ago
He tried darn hard to close Guantanamo, since it’s so useless and the American court system works so much better. It was cowards in congress who blocked his ability to do that. They even kicked a fuss when he had a recent terrorist sent for trial in New York instead of Guantanamo. New York courts have an brilliant record of trying terrorists, while Guantanamo has completed, what, two trials in over ten years? But the cowards aren’t giving up. They don’t want to admit that Guantanamo was a mistake.
chazandru over 11 years ago
Mr. Wuerker points out eloquently why so many on the ‘left’ are disillusioned with Mr. Obama. Despite the many accusations from conservatives about the President’s leftist agenda, the legislative evidence since he took offices shows he is ‘left’ on social issues, but right of center on business, nat’l security, and other issues that are important to progressive moderates such as me. Both parties seem comfortable with banks remaining too big to fail; with corporations creating effective monopolies on services and products; and with cooperating with the lobbyists of donors^. I wonder how long it will be before one party or the other gets enough of a majority to do to our country what Michigan is doing to cities in Detroit, and decide that voters in this country are not ‘responsible’ enough to vote for ‘sensible’ reforms, thereby justifying their supervention of our votes in order to put a “National Manager” in charge of the country.^The fortified institutions in Mr. Wuerker’s background lay a good foundation for enforcing a dictatorial gov’t and I do not trust either party to act in a Constitutional responsible way since they aren’t even able do the legislative jobs for which their states elected them’ and the states from whence they come are working so hard to create a one party oligarchy passing legislation friendly to donors and holding on to ‘allies’ by enforcing social issues that have nothing to do with the real purpose of gov’t….As zfacts says: “to require two old-fashioned conservative principles be joined to empathetic interpretation of three goals of government: to protect the public, promote the general Welfare, and stabilize the economy without wasting public funds, or not discouraging personal responsibility.”I dont trust either of these organizations to behave themselves.Respectfully,C.
lonecat over 11 years ago
When the left ran George McGovern, he was smushed. I’m on the left, I’d sure like to have a left president, but I’m also not stupid. If we want a left president, we need to make a left society that will elect her. In the meantime, if you get too far from the center, you’ll lose. But we should also keep up the pressure on Obama.
Jason Allen over 11 years ago
“How’s that hope and change going for ya?”A lot better than the same ol’ sh-t the Republicans offered up for 8 long years.
caligula over 11 years ago
The real question isn’t “DOES he want his legacy to be war with Iran” it’s “does he want to AVOID that being his legacy so much that he’ll let them build a functional weapon before doing anything?”
If he doesn’t want it that badly, then he’ll forever be remembered for the aftermath, which given the mindset of the hands on the switch over there, is almost a foregone conclusion unless the Iranian people themselves hang the theocrats in the streets and city squares.
Modeling nuclear age defense policy after a 5th Century religious document is not a recipe for anything but disaster. Particularly given that absent the need to get it aloft there is virtually NO limit to the maximum size and yield of a thermonuclear device. In fact efficiency of the burn INCREASES with the amount of available fissile or fusible material in the device.
STLDan over 11 years ago
So because the right doesn’t like the President you think we share your views? Too funny. I am completly happy with the President. He got us out of the complete economic decline your Republican administration put us in. At least when he does attack a terrorst no American lives are lost or uprooted and transplanted 10,000 miles across the world. It is such a joke when ANY republicans complains about President Obama. You act as though you have zero knowledge of the shape your party’s eight years in the white house left us in. Two wars, a destroyed economy, huge job losses, a housing crisis. Hey Ima how did all that work out for you?
chazandru over 11 years ago
@ Howgozit – It’s never a waste to attempt thoughtful debate. For each person who comments on GC, there are many more who merely read the comments. In addition to having cause to feel some of my comments have opened minds and/or hearts, I have benefited from the many intelligently presented counterpoints to my comments, or simply my position. They open my own mind, and an open mind is like an open parachute, it provides a softer landing when one find themselves grounded in reality. Thank you for compliment. You need to work on those jabs. };>^@ Dycel – thank you as well. It seems we have many points of agreement. The special interests, however, are not just conservative. Unions, in particular, have been huge supporters of the Dems, and one of the reasons the Dems aren’t more practitioners of corporatism than they already are. The history of unions is noble in conception, but less so in practice. The first person of my high school class to die after graduation was killed when his brake lines were severed because he was a “scab” truck driver during a coal strike in the 70’s. Most unions are good and necessary, but suffer from the broad strokes applied to less ethical unions.^I just erased another two paragraphs.The short of it is this- when you accuse conservatives, you should use the word Republicans, and you cannot accuse Republicans as the only villain in this fiasco. To do so gives power to the Democrats, not liberals, but Democrats who are the willing accomplices to this game of divide and weaken being played in our capital. Conservatives and Liberals are supporting these parties who pretend to address their concerns, but who in fact, make the country more dependent on a very wealthy subset of people, some of whom don’t even live in our nation. International corporations are the ones to who the parties have allegiance because their money makes third parties impossible and keeps career politicians in office. We are just an inconvenience, but fortunately for them, easily manipulated by fear, religious dogma, and lies. The parties have more in common than you realize. They use that commonality to keep us from working together on those things we do have in common.Sadly,but respectfully,C.
dannysixpack over 11 years ago
dannysixpack said, less than a minute ago
Ms. Ima said, about 3 hours ago
“How’s that hope and change going for ya?”
it’s going great, thanks for asking.business is coming in, in waves of pent up demand in spite of the republican obstruction trying to destroy the economy. As a nation we are out of one misguided, expensive war and closing down another. And although mccaine and other republicans are insisting we get involved in a quagmire in Syria, I don’t see Obama falling for that same old BS.
my company is hiring, instead of losing 700,000 jobs a month under the bush administration, employment is actually on an uptrend, interest rates are incredibly low, my house value is many times higher than it was when I bought it 13 years ago – and i’m looking to cut thousands off my monthly mortgage by refinancing. In fact housing is roaring back throughout the country, and as you know, housing drives the economy. Corporate profits are great, the stock market continues to regularly set new record highs, taxes are about the lowest they’ve ever been.
even more importantly, civil rights are improving at a fast pace.
of course we still have serious problems in this country. Our children get mass murdered in their classrooms, classes of workers are getting attacked and we still offshore way too many jobs. Our government is polluted with money and influence from multi-national corporations that don’t need a place to ‘live’ and have no patriotism for the country. We have backwards states actually teaching creationism in the classrooms, and the government is illegally funding the catholic church to the tune of over 4.1 billion dollars per year. This gives the church undue influence on the government which allows it’s conspiratorial leaders to evade prosecution for their crimes of pedophilia.
but all in all things are much better than they would have been had the trend of the bush administration not been reversed.
things are improving slowly but surely. think how fast they could improve if the traitorous republicans would stand behind their president, like the democrats stood behind bush.
yrral01 over 11 years ago
Peace is an excuse to do nothing. Peace doesn’t work. Do you want peace with cancer? Do you want peace with bullies or Freedom from diseases. We should stay in Afghanistan and give their people a hope for freedom, not run away because peace doesn’t work
Uncle Joe Premium Member over 11 years ago
“Interesting. Now compare the number of troop deaths Bush vs Obama regime.”Obama now has more troop casualties in Afghanistan, but Bush pretty much ignored Afghanistan. Bush’s total for Iraq/Afghanistan is still much higher than Obama’s.Do you support the lefties who never wanted our troops occupying those places in the first place? THAT would be interesting.
chazandru over 11 years ago
I have little time at the moment, Dycel. but I do NOT believe the Dems should be more corporate in their thinking. I also believe that it is only because of union donations that dems have been as conscious of the needs of the middle class workers as they have.Sorry if i implied anything other than that.this cartoon may be gone tomorrow, but my sanesaint@hotmail.com email address permits more detail into the debate. I simply wanted you to be aware that while the Dems offer the most ‘hope’ for liberals at the moment, were they to have “full power” in the legislature, the middle class could no more trust them than they currently do the GOP.this is not as eloquent or balanced as I prefer, but I have very little time at the moment.be well, dycelthank you for the reply, and the tone you set.it is through respectful discourse we can communicate best.sincerely,C.
Uncle Joe Premium Member over 11 years ago
“I mean the part about how we are out of an economic decline.”
dannysixpack over 11 years ago
^don’t confuse them with facts.
STLDan over 11 years ago
Dude your tin foil hat is slipping off. You nut jobs on the right are truely loony. Oh yes I am sure a man who is President has set out to ruin his own country. Do you not even see how friggin’ insane comments like yours are? wow!