Steve Breen for July 09, 2023

People? Who cares! There is profit to be made!

Is it any surprise that Biden is willing to use these horrific weapons banned in most countries? Hell, he does not even acknowledge his own granddaughter.

Why did we even have them in inventory? Another example of our military having money to burn.

War is a crime. The term “War Crime” is redundant. The Ukrainians have been getting killed by the thousands in missile attacks and bombings and we are now going to start quibbling about how well they are able to kill Russians?

For heavens (or hells) sake. Looking for a humane war is like looking for a “no-kill” slaughterhouse. Killing and especially wounding the enemy is the whole point of war. And we, unfortunately, are too good at it. ☠️

I am not in favor of cluster munitions. However, let’s be clear that they are already being used by Russians. On Ukrainian civilians. There are already countless unexplored bombs in civilian sites. Cluster munitions when used on specific military targets can be effective, and that’s what Ukraine has been begging for. I don’t think anyone is comfortable with this decision, including Biden, but there’s nothing about this war that has been good.

But we have 100,000 of them! Who would have thought we shouldn’t use them.

Mr. Breen: Cluster bombs used on invading Russian soldiers and professional killers bothers you, but everyday guns and automatic weapons used to kill U.S. citizens is just peachy????

President Biden has said that they are being provided while the U.S. gears up ammunition production as Ukraine is critically low in ammo. However, regardless of how cluster bombs are used, they, like land mines, are too responsible for too many civilian deaths even after all fighting had ended and should not be supplied by the U.S.

Plenty of reasons not too have them or use them.

Americans have odd standards on moral values.

Cluster bombs bad…bombing nurseries, hospitals, and civilians is also bad.

Can’t we just leave it that Putin is the only war criminal?

There are a myriad of good reasons not to wage war. Tell that to the invaders. Kill them any way you can.

Those who are my age can remember riots in American streets over the use of cluster bombs during the Southeast Asia conflict. But now, it’s OK with this corrupt administration and its amoral supporters.

Tell that to Pooty-poot.

As, Russia has been using those munitions and possibly far worse since the beginning of this war. Often targeting civilians with cluster bombs and not military targets, it’s hard to be judgemental that Ukraine would want to level the playing field. The right likes the saying, “Don’t bring a knife to a gun fight.” Granted they usually miss use that saying, when one of theirs loses a fist fight they started, then shoots the victor, because Repubs have a real hard time admitting when they’ve lost.

Anyway, it’s also possible, these munitions will be largely targeting the minefields Russia has put in place. Clearing them faster than they can manually. Minefields that are harming civilians as much, and perhaps more than the Ukrainian military. One thing for certain, unlike the Russian military, they won’t be used against civilian targets in another country. Only on Russian occupied Ukrainian territory, and that does include Crimea.

Time for Russia to pack it’s bags, say it’s sorry and prepare to pay reparations to Ukraine.

The number of people lost to the russian invasion will be thousands more than collateral damage from dud cluster bombs if they are not deployed. Yes, cluster munitions cost lives but in this case they will save many more in total if the war is more quickly brought to an end

You’re whining about cluster munitions? Well, when is America going to join the ICJ convention? Probably only after W, Obama and the orange baboon pass away.

the sad fact is that war is terrible, brutal, truly unfair, absolutely disgusting … it should never be and waged..never made acceptable or honorable…never taken lightly…and waged with the open fact that what i said above IS fact…. that being said… the implements of war.. should be appropriate for those instigating the war…and in this truly horrible unjust, disgusting war … one that many innocents have and will lose their lives… and keenly aware of what i just said…….cluster bombs in my opinion…and against my own beliefs…are acceptable to deter the aggressor who will use any method..any tool…any disgusting thing they can think up to ….win… slaughter and win…. ……………. ( how i HATE that i said that….and feel that….but how i ‘feel’ won’t stop this aggressor…and any tool that in the end delivers a defeat…save a first strike nuclear response is unfortunately acceptable as the lowest common denominator…)

More democrat deaths

This is a tough one. On the one hand, cluster bombs are horrible. On the other hand, the cows have very much left the barn — Russia is already dropping tons of cluster bombs on Ukraine, and they’re way worse ones than the ones the White House has approved sending to Ukraine. The American munitions have a very low “dud” rate, while the Russian ones have a dud rate closer to 30-40%; that’s more like the horrific cluster munitions we’re all thinking about from Vietnam. And they’re using them indiscriminately, so demining is going to be necessary all over Ukraine anyway. If these munitions will end the war sooner, in this case they may actually be a lesser evil than not sending them. It’s hard; it’s a bell that can’t be unrung, and I don’t want the US to go into this supporting their use, but on the other hand, people are dying, and Ukraine needs tools to end this conflict.

Just a bit of information to enlighten people on cluster weapons. Not all of the are of equal quality. For example USA cluster munitions have a failure or “dud” rate of about 2.3%. Russia and other countries have a failure of 40% and greater.

Then there is how they are used. Russia uses them indiscriminately and has a long history of using them as terror weapons against civilian populations. Ukraine has agreed and made a commitment to only use them on the battlefield away from civilian areas.

Also, our CMs are delivered with precision guidance so the Ukrainians will know where any unexploded ordinance may be found. Those areas will receive first priority for cleanup once the hostilities are over in the region.

Cluster weapons have deservedly received a bad rap due to their careless use resulting in a high civilian casualty rate. But, like most other weapons if used properly and with forethought, the risk to civilians is minimal. Just look at how Russia has conducted its war with other conventional weapons. Ukrainian cities are littered with unexploded ordinance that they will still be finding for years to come.

“Let the boy try along this bayonet-blade How cold steel is, keen with hunger of blood;Blue with all malice, like a madman’s flash.And thinly drawn with famishing for flesh.”

“Lend him to stroke these blind, blunt bullet-leads,Which long to nuzzle in the hearts of lads,Or give him cartridges of fine zinc teeth Sharp with the sharpness of grief and death.”

“For his teeth seem for laughing round an apple.There lurk no claws behind his fingers supple;And God will grow no talons at his heels,Nor antlers through the thickness of his curls.”

Wilfred Owen