Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for June 07, 2012

I though the father did know, especially when he advised her not to “dwell.”

I thought that was Mr. Wilkes.

I guess Dad must have thought she had a “standard, run-of-the-mill” kind of PTSD – sorta like the flue or measles or something.Seriously, I am sure that a lot of women who’ve been raped in the military don’t tell their parents. Facing the hassle, degradation, and shame foisted on them in the service is too much and many wouldn’t even know how to approach the subject with Mom or Dad.I think GT is pointing out how out of touch we parents can sometimes be.

Horsehockey.

Depends heavily upon your unit. You assault or harass a female (or a male) in my unit and you are DONE. Saw two NCO’s come within a whisker of losing their stripes right down to E1 because they made some stupid comments. They fixed themselves after being dealt with and that was that. The female in question has since been promoted twice (up from E2) and leads a team now and is well respected and marked as a candidate for advancement to NCO herself.

Just like in the regular world. If you have a group of 1,000,000 people, some are going to be dirtbags and there will be crime. It’s the exception, not the rule.

Orion

As a male rape victim I cna only sympathise!

The PERP MAY get some sort of penalty, but the victim SURELY WILL!

Dad’s reaction does seem to contradict his knowing “dwell” remark of May 30…

gmartin997 said, 40 minutes ago…

NOTHING of consequence.

Being raped is not a problem of your own making.

It was a previous arc from some months ago that she is referring to.

Otoh – in response to your later comment yesterday, it certainly wasn’t just your name provoking things, it was your bigoted comment. Re-read your first comment from yesterday. If you can’t see how you are essentially approving of rape then you’re just a lost cause….

I was a Sub Unit Commander. I didn’t have M or F soldiers, I just had my troop. YOU DONT treat a peer like this. There is simply not a book big enough to hurl at those responsible for this sort of conduct in or out of uniform. You go GT bring it ALL into the open. If people feel uncomfortable talking about it – they should do some serious navel gazing!

This is one of the problems of an authoritarian power structure. Yes, you can get things done quickly. And also you may find that JUSTICE and fairness depend on the cojones of the guy(usually a guy!) in charge…who may have politicked his way to his authority position…and wants no waves to rock the structure.

If the old boys at the top of the totem pole don’t want to hear it, get out of the group. Find another place to play. That place USED to be called America. Forget it now: Koch and Grover have your elected reps’ balls, etc, in THEIR locked box.

And Citizens’ United bought openly at least ONE member of SCOTUS. check with Common Cause on THAT. And DOJ has NOT done s.h.i.(Tparty) about the hugely successful criminals who ripped and robbed the Treasury and citizens in ‘07 and 08…and they’ve been very quiet since…money spread around helps legal situations a LOT.

truth is the ticket. gmartin is just doing his “she asked for it” schtick. when you’re a rape victim even talking about the subject is a victory, and talking about it in an auditorium of young idealists even more so. to have to harsh their mellow.

And yet they insist on allowing women to serv on submarines……………………

Aaaaaannd every female in that audience just lost interest in making the military their future. Good for her for telling the truth about what really goes on, rather than letting these future soldiers find out the hard way, when it’s too late. Look, I AM grateful we have such a strong military to protect all of us. I really am. (Both my little bros. have served) Unfortunately, the ‘bad apples’ in the bunch only weaken our military’s strength. Our ‘enemy’ should not be within the ‘fortress’. So, to the ‘bad apples’ : When we say “NO!”, we mean “NO!!”

She is speaking directly to her experience in the military. Though it wouldn’t be acceptable in civilian or military life in any case.

Garry Trudeau is the Baby Boomers Jon Stewart

Women in military and especially combat areas is and was a bad policy. Even men get some bad treatment. Its all about conformity, not to the written rules, but to the unwritten rules.Young men full of testosterone and the need to show great courage are often doing things not socially acceptable, and that includes rape, hurting someone who they perceive asa nuisance or not measuring up, etc.Don’t ask, Don’t tell is not only for homosexuals but for women who are raped. The military does not want to hear it, and if it does then the complainer is gently, or not, removed if at all possible with little concern for justice.

ahhhh yes, the old “blame the victim” canard

When I was a kid, I was considering going to West Point. My father, a decorated WWII veteran, took me aside. He said, “You’ll have to follow all of your commander’s orders.” I said, “Yeah, isn’t that the point?” “No, ALL of his orders,” he emphasized with a certain “look”. Light dawned, and I never did apply.

I’m very, very glad that Mr. Trudeau is trying to start a national dialogue over this terrible problem in our military. Condoned rape of military women has been a reality probably since the first woman enlisted. We need to make it stop, and make it safe for everyone.

You asked yesterday about why other commenters took such offense at your posts. I try to avoid the personal in this forum, but are you really so clueless about how backward you sound?

Aside from administrative assistants and nurses, do we really need women in the military?

What’s with all this androgynous, tomboy stuff anyway? It isn’t very feminine

Who else thinks that Roz looks like Mr. Spock in the last panel?

For those that don’t know gmartin is a Troll. It seems he annoys new people every day, and that’s really what he’s trying to do. He enjoys it. He does it on a daily basis. Ignore him and your time in gocomics will be that much nicer.

Orion has the right of it. I’m a military woman and that has been my experience. Although I can’t speak for all women, my observation is that women who are professional, business-like, self-confident, and who have a sense of humor are very unlikely to be hassled. Women who don’t fit that criteria may have a different experience. Of course nothing justifies rape, ever. That’s a whole ‘nother conversation. I’d bet that a military woman is less likely to be raped than a female college freshman.

My definition of harassment is this: Don’t mess with my body, my pay, or my chances to do a job/be promoted. That’s it. I couldn’t care less about rough language or being politically correct. There’s only been one time I felt harassed…a senior officer didn’t want me to lead a detachment only because of my gender. It didn’t matter to him that I had the experience and previous success. That was messed up but HIS senior officer corrected it.

I am sure that there are many anecdotes of positive things happening in the military. There are also many anecdotes which are not so great. One doesn’t really dispel the other.

When you talk about “letting” women join the military and “putting women in harm’s way”, you’re talking as if they are objects or animals or children without responsibility for themselves. They are not property or protectorates, they are people who can make decisions for themselves, good or bad. They don’t need anyone’s permission, and “yes” means “yes” just as well.

To joemorgan and ramonesfan:

We have a volunteer force. At a time when we were fighting 2 wars, we needed all the help we could get. Mel is not combat soldier but as a helicopter mechanic, she makes sure others have the tools they need for battle.

Sorry if she is not glamorous enough for you. I hope that remark about being feminine was facetious.

If you’re such a liberal, don’t you believe in letting people live their own lives? Either putting PEOPLE in harm’s way should bother you, and/or you should get it through your head that FEMALE people are entitled to their own choices.

Ramonesfan: My daughter was the first female firefighter/paramedic hired in her county. She did better on the physical tests than the men, in fact, set the department record. She is very feminine, but also very strong and athletic. She was also the smartest person in the department. While she initially was “harassed”, when they found out she was better than the men, it stopped.

As to actual combat roles, despite what Newt spouted in his ignorance, in many situations of stress, and physical hardship, women do better than men. If one man ever had to get pregnant and deliver a baby, it would end all the flap about “stronger”.

That RELIGIOUS laws and tenets have put women below men, is sociologic poop, not physiological fact.

Further proof that rape is about power, control and violence and has absolutely nothing to do with sex.When women fought to get into the military, then combat positions, we were told “You’ll get raped!” Why is it our society still wants women to live in cages rather than working to end rape?Power and control.

Women have been serving in the military in Israel for how long now?

Since 1995 women have been in combat roles in Israel according to NPR. So, this is rather old news elsewhere, though they probably face the same trials and tribulations while serving.

Of course, serving in combat roles is different from just any old role. It is probably inevitable that women will serve in combat on behalf of the U.S. as well.

You said “Now, we expect our soldiers, healthy, virile men in their twenties, mostly, to treat females like just another soldier.This seems ridiculously difficult. Very difficult. Hormones are very powerful, particularly in the male of our species.”

No.

I’ve been a soldier in a combat zone, and neither I or my fellow soldiers felt an urge to sexually assault or rape. These crimes are not about health or virility or going without. These crimes are about dominance, control, and betrayal of trust between soldiers.

“A male-only military worked pretty well a thousand years ago. It seems that nobody changed the rules when women joined up.”For me that sums up what’s wrong with your argument. I’m sure your arguments would be valid a thousand years ago. But the rules have changed dramatically since the Vikings.Aggressive behavior is only acceptable when properly directed, and even at that point, when it’s under control. That’s true for soldiers, athletes, or executives. It’s called discipline. Rape, pillage and plunder 101 is not taught in basic training, and when soldiers turn on each other or on innocent non-combatants, it’s big news precisely because it’s aberrant behavior – inside the military as well as outside of it. “The military obviously abhors change, but if these issues are to be addressed, a realistic approach to sexuality should be taken.” Not so obvious. Improvise, adapt and overcome are watchwords in a modern military. The military thrives on change. Soldiers are trained and expected to adapt to changes constantly. No organization is without those who cling to the familiar – soldiers are drawn from the same culture and have the same flaws as civilians – but resistance to change is not learned in the military. The military pushes people to un-learn it. Given the changes in society, the military seems to have a more realistic approach to sexuality than many of the posts here. The military knows that men do not become rapists because they are taught to be aggressive any more than they become rapists because they are away from their wives and girlfriends. It also knows that keeping women from serving along with men is not addressing the problem; that would only be keeping women “in their place.”I too agree with the idea of universal service. If a bigger segment of our society served, we might be able to erase some of the backwards, clichéd stereotypes of the military so many people slavishly believe (not to mention public outcry when our leaders get us in worthless military entanglements).

It seems a lot of people with little to no experience in the military have something to say about it. It may be an unpopular opinion, but before you speak, go find yourself at least twelve veterans and ask them about their experience. Why twelve? Because to be educated on any issue, you need diverse sources of information. Twelve should enable you to find one woman from each branch of service, and one minority, and one member of the majority.

Otherwise, realize your opinion has less weight of my opinion regarding the strategies used to win at handball, a sport I played for one semester in college, which is more time than most of you have in or near actual military personnel.

An “interest”? Seriously? Is he choosing to completely ignore everything his own daughter went through, or is he just effed in the head?