Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for March 27, 2010

I don’t like the sound of this!

First amendment vs. 2nd amendment?

It’s not every day that one has an opportunity to sacrifice one’s life for a worthy cause.

Alex shouldn’t shoot off her mouth around people.

Heh, I’m with Joe. I carried a gun in the service and I’ve shot guns on the battlefield, on the firing range and while hunting.

But carrying one in every day life? I’m not some repressed moron who thinks his pen!s is too small.

I wonder what Toggle thinks of this.

I had a friend tell be that she saw bars in Texas that had signs saying keep your guns outside, or check your guns at the door. Why would it be so risky or controversial for Starbucks to have a similar policy?

Oh my heavens, there are people here with guns drinking coffee. Geez, get over it.

I don’t think people should have the right to do something I don’t agree with, so I want my coffee shop to lead the fight against it!

To quote the apostle Paul: “All things are lawful, but not all things are beneficial. All things are lawful, but not all things build up.”

Uh people you do realize that this comic is being written by someone with an anti-gun slant. People are not really carrying guns into Starbucks like it’s being portrayed. Also if they don’t like the gun owners then why haven’t they just gone somewhere else for their coffee? Real life gun owners who carry aren’t at all like this comic is portraying them.

Most of my acquaintance would look sideways and puzzled if you asked them do they “carry into Starbucks.” It is always tempting to relate the discussion here to the murder rate where there is an active topic of “carrying”. I know people who do just that. I am sure the figures for “national” murder rates are available at a computer near you. Doonesbury does get syndicated outside the USA, but this week it might have to be explained in some countries, where “carrying” is neither a hot nor a cool topic. I wonder if anyone in the regulars here might be sensitive about that.

I fear Alex is about to learn that it’s (still) “a man’s world”. However, cool counter guy is carrying his cool sanity…. so there’s hope. As for free speech….

Why do people go to Starbucks anyway? Duncan Donuts is cheaper and better.

Lock-n-Load.

Need to strap on their manhood before get that half-caf mocha-chino, with a twist.

Maybe if they go full caf they load up with cop killer bullets

I object to Doon carrying ads for Starbucks.

Are those clik’s the sound of safeties going off?

Cops on TV always hit the villain. Stray rounds never hit the innocent. Scares the heck out of me if every other man is packing the ability to decide life or death. Cops in reality spend a lot of time on the range shooting at 35 feet. Are you as a gun owner willing to risk an innocent life shooting at a moving target at 50 feet?

People who write dead-serious posts about a comic strip are either sad sacks who need to get a life, or sensible and intelligent people who take it for what it is: not real, but a comment about an aspect of reality. Today we’ve had it up to here with both. (Which is which is left as an exercise for the reader….)

Morons, are we!

I have carry permit and rarely exercie the right. Know dozens of people who have carry permits. Believe me, we understand the consequences of drawing a gun and pointing it in anger. It’s tanamount to assault with a deadly weapon and it’ll cost you upwards of $50 g in lawyers’s fees, and your carry permit.

Trudeau is misrepresenting people who carry; and so are a lot of you. How is dismissing people with carry permits as “rednecks” and “morons” and “idiots,” with small peckers, not bigoted? How is it not prejudicial for this cartoonist to depict gun owners in a way that gun owners don’t behave?

fbjsr - this doesn’t exist? This whole real-life story line started back in January, when open-carry chest-thumpers began meeting - and yes, carrying - in coffee shops in the SF bay area to promote the, um, “benefits” of openly carrying. You’re right - no one has been shot - yet. But it’s early, and when you combine guns with the in-your-face macho mentality at the heart of this whole phenomenon, it’s just a matter of time.

while open carry is a recent hot topic with the obama town hall meetings and now starbucks, what ppl don’t realize is that ppl with Concealed carry permits are and always have been ALL AROUND YOU.

If a teacher or student had had a gun at virginia tech, the shooters might not have killed as many people.

At columbine the cops didn’t even enter the school for HALF AN HOUR. Makes you feel pretty safe.

If our own soldiers at fort hood were not DISARMED on the military base, the shooter might not have killed so many.

Most people-like 99%, are decent human beings. These are the folks you want carrying guns, because eventually, someone who is out to shoot as many innocents as possible, will do so. And the only thing that will stop them is running out of ammo, or someone else with a gun.

Who is making trouble? Her or the others? She’s the one antagonizing them.

hizzonner said:

“Trudeau is misrepresenting people who carry; and so are a lot of you. How is dismissing people with carry permits as “rednecks” and “morons” and “idiots,” with small peckers, not bigoted? How is it not prejudicial for this cartoonist to depict gun owners in a way that gun owners don’t behave?”

People who have no idea what ‘toting’ is about have all kinds of misconceptions. They assume a certain mindset that, while I’m sure it does exist somewhere, is not realistic at all. I ‘toted’ for eight years while I drove a taxi. As I typically worked 12hrs a day, 6 day or 7 days a week, if I was awake and dressed I was armed. I feel it is irresponsible to leave a weapon where it may be stolen so it stayed on my side. I would have loved to drop into a coffee shop or just walk into a convenience store to pay for my gas without worrying about my weapon.

There are many valid reasons for carrying. Among them are, “Just because I want to”. Once you strap it on you leave it there. It is a tremendous responsibility. To big to leave here and there. You keep it in your direct control. This is one reason that I no longer carry. The constant awareness that you are armed, and the concern for safety, is a burden.

You have to admit that this story line has been really funny since it started.

GT continues to speak the truth!

Too many liberals have wimped out. “Liberal” has become an insult. Countering right wing drivel is fast becoming a “crime.”

The right’s motto is “Tell a lie often enough and you can convince a whole lot of people that it’s the truth.”

How on earth has the right managed to invert the truth? They are the real lairs. More progressives need to stand up to this.

Posting this is probably foolish, but how else can the lies be challenged?

As a lawful gun owner, I have absolutely ZERO intention of purchasing or drinking coffee in a shop with a bunch of people with guns. Period. The place is either dangerous enough to require being armed, or it’s dangerous because people are armed.

What most of you guys don’t understand is that profit is not based on politics in a free market system. If Starbucks would rather serve the gun-toting minority than the non-toting majority, then that’s fine. I’m sure that McDonalds will appreciate the uptick in coffee purchases, as will Peet’s, Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf and It’s A Grind.

This specific debate thread started back in November, when a career criminal gunned down and killed four (I think it was four) cops in a Seattle coffee shop. This prompted the open-carry coffee shop public posturing, which in turn prompted protests from other cutomers, which in turn prompted Starbucks to declare that each stores’ policy would be guided by local gun laws (a position that I respect), which in turn prompted GB’s current story line.

The wonderful irony here is that the gun crowd - even the posters here - is using this discussion to drag out the old chestnut about “if there had only been one citizen carrying, none of this would have happened”. Excuse me folks - the four people killed were OPENLY CARRYING POLICE OFFICERS, with extensive training in handling weapons and responding to threatening situations. Yet one lone crazy shot and killed all of them. Who among the carryers will go on record as claiming that they would have done a better job of stopping this guy before he did his damage? If four professionals couldn’t do it, why on earth do you think you could?

I, for one, have had to use a weapon. Carrying it may have saved my life, and certainly prevented serious injury.

I’m just glad that I didn’t have to say, “Hold on a minute, I have to run to the car and get something.”

Argue with that.

Yep! Typical lib - immediately resorts to name calling.

wgholly said: “Who is making trouble? Her or the others? She’s the one antagonizing them.”

But people who carry can’t afford to get angry, lest they put themselves into a situation where they have to use it.

My carrying kept me out of many confrontations. These days I’m much more likely to shoot my mouth off. (I don’t carry anymore, and I’m gettin’ old and don’t care what people think).

great post doctordan – i live in seattle and still can’t get my head around what happened. but i do know that i’m not patronizing any place where citizens openly display their guns. this will never be a civilized country until the wild west, vigilante, paranoid, take-the-law-into-my-own-hands mentality stops.

hizzoner – what a moronic justification!

Pssst……….don’t tell anyone……..

Starbucks, as rich as they are, couldn’t buy this much publicity !!

…and the best part for them…….FREE

But you may be surrounded by people legally carrying concealed and if someone comes in to do harm, you just might be grateful. 911 is for the most part, government sponsored dial a prayer. I’ve carried concealed for years and been grateful I’ve never needed to use it. But I’d rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. It’s simply insurance with a great deal of responsibility attached to it.

My friends and I have legally owned guns for years, and we have concealed carry permits here in Florida. We don’t have self-esteem issues, we’ve never fluanted our carrying guns, and we never looked for trouble to get into.

However, there is a class of people who, though not all of them, seem to have self-esteem issues, are irresponsible with power they hold, and seem to be trying to make up for small shortcomings. And those are people who tend to own pitbulls and rottweillers.

There is a subtle irony here. Guns in a coffee shop? A few people get killed with guns. Caffiene tho, now that’s a killer with no safety lever. http://tinyurl.com/y9eqp6a http://tinyurl.com/ngl869

Wait… Alex says Starbucks doesn’t allow mothers to nurse their babies in their stores? Is this correct? Does Starbucks really object to a woman breast-feeding their infant in public? And some of you are defending their policies on Open Carry of guns but ignoring their discrimination against mothers?

Seriously?

What’s wrong with you?

fbjsr - I’m not clear - is my speculation about what I think might - or will - happen somehow less valid than your speculation about what you think would have happened, if only? I’ll stick with whatever rule you want to follow - either we both stick exclusively to historical fact, or we can both hazard reasonable speculation about hypothetical situations. You pick, but you can’t have it both ways to suit your argument of the moment.

Looks likes there’s going to be some gun slinging in that saloon.

tud, you are such an idiot. If we all lived by the idea that no one could do anything we didn;t approve of, people wouldn;t be allowed to do anything.

Personally, I can see carrying a gun on only certain occassions - hiking, canoeing, hunting, basically anything outdoors where you can run into real hazards - not that it often occurs.

The only folks I would expect to conceal carry would be certain types of messengers/couriers, police, bounty hunters and provate detectives. I don;t need my gun to feel safe in starbucks - except maybe from the high prices :)

http://www.jsonline.com/news/waukesha/84928722.html

Here’s a news story about guns in Starbucks - in Waukesha WI - one of the safer places in the US.

http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Waukesha&state=WI

Sheer lunacy, and an easy target for GT.

@bashar327

I get what you’re trying to say but stereotyping pitbull and rottweiler owners is the same thing some people are doing to gun owners. I love rottweilers and don’t own a gun. Large dogs bred to hunt and guard aren’t that different from guns. The owner’s intention determines how the “tool” will be used. My rotties have all been members of my family and enormous lap dogs; just don’t try to threaten me in their presence. Sounds like you and your gun, right?

You’d think he would know by now that his little girl is gonna speak her mind and doesn’t intimidate easily.

Remember when she was putting fliers on SUVs in parking lots?

starbucks doesn’t allow breastfeeding???

Considering comparative effects of caffeine vs. alcohol on behavior, I would rather be in a coffee shop with pistol-packing Bubbas than in a bar with them.

That said, why not keep politics and coffee separate? My main complaint about Starbucks has always been that I don’t like their burnt-bean coffee.

And the last time I ordered coffee at a Duncan Donuts, the girl behind the counter asked it I wanted cream and-or sugar and put it in herself, so I had it sweetened to her standards rather than my own. Yuck! If only their donuts were that sweet!

The postings about this Starbucks fantasy have been remarkable. Nobody can agree on what GT is satirizing. If he really wanted to stir up another debate over the public rights of gun owners, Trudeau would have made his object clear as he did in the old panel on the gun lobby that attyuhs quoted yesterday.

So what is Trudeau’s object in this Starbucks series? SCAATY for example insists that Doonesbury should be read like any comic strip for its humor, whereas DoctorDan reminds us that only last November, four fully-armed cops were shot in a Seattle diner. If Doonesbury were just a humorous comic strip, it would have to give actual events like that a wide berth.

A reader of Doonesbury can sense that its humor tends more to satire than to slapstick. Having caught us up in his satirical–or mock-serious–point of view, GT can freely exaggerate the absurdities he targets and can leave us to sort the facts from fiction (that seems to be what annoys fbjsr).

As attyuhs says, the Doonesbury strips have suffered a change in tone. Trudeau now seems to be mocking everyone, including liberals who think they ought to be safe baiting armed rednecks in a coffee shop. Perhaps exposing life’s absurd violence makes GT feel good. I’d like to see him go back to issues that are more humorous and not so desperate.

The best satire is based on versimilitude–a humorous take on events, but one which the listener could envision happening. I’m showing my age here, but remember former Rep. Claudine Schneider saying that then-Vice President Dan Quayle told her, after returning from a trip to Latin America, that he wished that he had studied more Latin so that he could better have communicated with his hosts.

Has anyone else heard that the NRA is going to pay tribute to the late Charlton Heston by underwriting a remake of his epic movie? It will be called The Nine Commandments.

@JohnHerbison:

I’m even older (born a week before McCain), so I can remember what President Nixon, Quayle’s predecessor, said when he presented medals to the commandos who had tried to rescue prisoners from the Viet Namese. It turned out their information was wrong and the barn where the prisoners were supposedly being held was empty. Nevertheless, Nixon congratulated them on the success of their heroic mission: “If the prisoners had been there, we would have rescued them.” Intelligent as he was, it didn’t occur to Nixon that the commandos might have run into trouble had the enemy chosen to guard an empty barn.

I’ve got to go with yumitori & sunshipballoons here. There is nothing more normal or natural than a nursing baby. If you have a problem with that, you have a problem.

On the other issue, a standup comic said about Mexican judo “judo know if I got a gun, judo know if I got a knife.” Nobody mess with nobody = no problem. Zen.

Yumitori, Sunshipballoons, ChukLitl:

Again, a simple statement used to misrepresent facts. A store manager in a Louisiana starbucks shop acted on his own. Starbucks issued a public apology and mentioned that their store managers should be aware of state/local law (Louisiana allows nursing in public).

Unfortunately, I do stay abreast of current affairs and don’t get my facts from comic strips and op eds.

“Hi! Come in! Please, no murdering.”

http://tinyurl.com/ycz3kxj

Re attyush: now that you mention it, I remember hearing about the incedent. I’m glad Starbucks apologized. There was a similar apology from Los Angeles’ mass transit. Objections deserve to be shot down, whenever they arise.

Do you think Ronald Reagan’s “Death Valley Days” has had any influence on todays conservative, in regard to NRA politics?

there are always loud and rude folks at starbucks - had some woman behind me in line try to go thru my grocery bag that i was carrying - no, not a barista, just an average starbucker barefoot i’ve seen not nursing tho hopefully someone will soon put this storyline out of our misery - bring back zonker or duke even

See, I told you the NRA has these shills that how up on websites…How many of you are actually here normally and I use that last word LOOSELY, like your cannons.

@ Susan:

Re Open Carry: http://starbucks.tekgroup.com/articledisplay.cfm?articleid=332

Re Nursing: http://www.starbucksunion.org/node/332

Incidentally, a single employee does not define a company’s culture. Just for the record, I don’t go to Starbucks - it is way beyond my means.

I’m sorry that all the anti-gun nuts are so misinformed and just simply wrong. I’m sorry that they are so ignorant and so fearful of their fellow citizens that they would rather that all arms remain only in the hands of the government and the criminals who will always remain armed. Fortunately the founding fathers of this country were far wiser than the swarm of bozo’s who just do not understand the purpose of the 2nd amendment despite the huge amount of writing left behind by those very founders explaining it.

I think Garry’s snob elitism is showing thru. Can’t you lib’s face the fact that people are different from you?

Why all the problem with Starbucks following local laws? Starbucks is a great company that chooses to not try change local legislation but just sell a quality product and provide a safe, comfortable environment for it’s employees and customers. Let’s talk about all the good Starbucks does in it’s local and global economy instead, eh Mr. Trudeau?

Hey – dem guys gotta protect demselves don’t dey – especially from some woman shootin (ptp) off her mouth?

In the murder trial for which I was part of the jury, it was the guy’s girlfriend (who he was trying to protect) who ended up dead – not the criminal – and guess who was on trial for murder.

“Ol’ Peacekeeper” here and I don’t take none of that hate speech here, li’l Missy! Now, why donchu and your lib’rul boyfriend just walk out of here, nice and quiet like, and keep on walkin’ to Canada where you belong!

what would Jesus pack?