Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for March 22, 2010

Meanwhile, I’m going across the street to Peets.

Seems to me that a private business has the right to decide whether armed customers are to be served or not.

Actually, it’s about Starbucks going along with whatever laws are in effect at the location being visited. If the gun is legal to carry, Starbucks isn’t going to make a company policy otherwise.

Contrary to the cartoon, Starbucks is trying desperately NOT to take sides in the gun debate, but anti-gun activists want people to boycott Starbucks unless Starbucks will agree to side with the anti-gun groups. I’m sure they are not very happy to have someone strolling in openly carrying a firearm, but they don’t want a pro-gun boycott any more than an anti-gun boycott

I guess the anti-gunners figure it will be easier to intimidate companies trying to avoid bad publicity than get their agenda passed through local government.

A visit to Starbucks is so dang dangerous. The coffee alone could kill ya…

Any responsible gun owner would never use their weapon after caffeinating. Can’t aim while you’ve got the shakes…

Yeah. If you can’t get what you want through proper channels, use ‘Political Correctness’.

On a side note: PC was originally a derogatory term coined (arguably) by George Orwell in ‘1984’. It was used to point out the stupidity, and danger, of the whole concept. Yet the idea is embraced by many people who, apparently, can’t think for themselves. After all, how can you be against something that just sounds so ‘correct’?

Will armed customers have an impact on the price of a latte?

I was open carrying once, and a cop walked up to me; apparently this one woman had panicked when she saw my gun and complained to store management, who saw a cop and had him come talk to me. He asked for my permit information and then politely informed me that someone had lodged a complaint against me and that he was giving me a chance to correct the situation.

So I dug back into my wallet and handed him my Concealed Carry permit(different permit), put on the jacket I had stashed in my shopping cart, and covered up. He kind of grinned and admitted that was fine, then walked off, to the sputtering outrage of the woman who had complained(and who was watching furtively from about fifteen feet away). I proceeded to completely ignore her, even when we ended up at the same checkout line a little while later.

I always thought PC had something to do with 1984. Aways had the ring of Thought Police.

\\//_

..you anti-gun people put me into a blind rage…

I very much like MARBLE’s comment “I do wonder what is missing from a person’s makeup that they feel the need to carry a weapon in a peaceful society.”

I appreciate guns (Expert on M-1 and M-14 [yes, I’m old] and competitive shooter in the Army) but nearly all the most avid gun advocates I have met were using them to make up for something missing in their character. My conclusion is that for them guns are a self-esteem substitute, like bullying or bragging, just more dangerous.

Just as I believe you have a right to poison yourself with the drug of your choice but that doesn’t mean you should, I also agree with the Second Amendment right to bear arms (finally recognized by the Supreme Court), but that doesn’t mean it is a rational thing to openly pack in public.

The rational argument to carry a gun in public is that you fear you are going to be attacked. How many crimes have there been in SBUX?

I want to go get myself a Desert Eagle (yes, It’s a crappy gun, but the size should compensate for my shortcomings) and a thigh rig. THen I want to go to some place like a Rib joint or a fine restaurant.

I agree with Marble bleeep and pschearer, on most counts.

Unless you’re a cop or a soldier, If you’re packing, you’re lacking.

I don’t have anything against guns per se, and have no problems with hunters or target shooters (my son shoots competitively), but anyone who thinks they need to pack a sidearm for protection is just pathetic. And yeah, I grew up in a bad neighborhood where you had to have some street smarts to survive.

BTW, this is the text of the second Amendment as ratified by the states: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” Let’s not forget the ”well regulated” part in all this. If you’re going to carry a gun, at least make sure you’ve got the proper training.

What would Gary know about guns? He lives in NY, in which they have bastardized the US Constitution to make guns illegal to possess, and certainly illegal to carry concealed or openly.

People who know anything about guns would not carry them openly unless they were in the “wilds” where they might need it (yes the “wilds” might be downtown Detroit). It’s rare that anyone carries a gun openly; but this cartoon person just has to politicize a rare (and legal) instance in order to proselytize his PC point of view.

I think that if you pary Starbucks prices you’re all ready being held up.

Hmmmm…must be Florida!

blind rage is a very dangerous state of mind, armed or unarmed.

our society is terminally f*ed up.

Hey, give the gun fans a break. Walking around unarmed takes a combination of brains and testicular fortitude that not everyone is blessed with.

(FWIW, I support the right to keep and bear arms.)

I’m not that worried about gun carriers in Starbucks, it’s the ones who carry legally in bars that concern me. Alcohol + guns = bad results

3hourtour, Does it make you want to “go Postal”?

The Constitutional protection to bear arms exists solely for the purpose of overthrowing the burden of bad government. Anyone should be able to own guns with or without registration, but the Gov’t is fully within their authority to ban the carry of guns; since the only reason to carry is to attack the existing Gov’t power structure. (Something I do NOT currently advocate, a few years ago it was close).

bird - I’ve read 1984 many times, and don’t recall the term “political correct” being used. Can you cite a passage?

Yep, guns are tools. Eventually they’ll make nice plowshears.

For now, I don’t care who has one as long as he’s gone through proper training and knows when to kill his wife or her husband in a fit of rage and use .22 ammo so It won’t go through the wall and take out a kid down the block.

Gun rights is one of the hilariously funny fear issues. Jumped sales like crazy after O was elected. Made them even richer. Hopefully we can get enough fear going overseas since they’re our best export.

Thanks to our Congressman Dingell, MI and the hunting states get a nice cut of federal cash from gun sales, too, So keep up the good work down South where you can pick up a gun in Florida, point it right and get a permit.

Oh, Slippery Slope.

You folks really have to learn to laugh at some of this stuff. NO ONE is taking your guns unless you get stupid and pile up a couple hundred of them. They take lives, protect lives and ruin lives in doing both sometimes. Other times, the user is glad they were there.

Extremists on both sides waste time money and energy while fear mongers on both sides get fat. Put ‘em on a diet. They might starve and actually have to debate issues.

Nothing I say is going to change anyone’s mind on this topic, but just so you know where I’m coming from I have my handgun and I have it locked up since I feel that is the safest course of action considering my life at this time.

And so I say, ‘Thank you, Marble, for your wise words.’

How many more dead innocent bystanders if the guy returning fire didn’t know how to shoot, fb? Ask cops who get caught in that scenerio all the time. That’s where the term “righteous shoot” comes from.

Personally, I wouldn’t be comfortable with being in a restaurant with an armed stranger. How do you know that this person has a legitimate right or not? Or what would happen if he was having a bad day? I go to Starbucks to have a cup and relax… not worry about whether or not the guy with gun is okay.

All of you are missing the point. That is- we have Thudpucker behind us. No more re-runs. This is good stuff.

What’s really rather funny is the thought that rite-thinkin’ red-blooded Ahmar’cans with a propensity to openly carry firearms would be regular Starbucks customers.

I have been diagnosted with PTSD, bi-polar, depression and rage by the VA. I am 100& service connected disabled. The person in charge of issuing concealed weapons permits in my county in NC knows all this. He was CIA and I was NSA so he figured what the heck and issued me a license. It’s OK because I have never been institutionalized.

Forty-Five years ago, the NRA did great work teaching kids and adults how to safely handle firearms. I grew up in a small rural town where guns were used for hunting. The number one message from the NRA was, “Never point a gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot.” (implied was “guns are for hunting, not shooting people) not “guns don’t kill people, people kill people.” This formerly useful organization has turned insane.

Carrying a weapon means that you are taking PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for the civil conduct of your society. Surrender that responsibility, and you are deserving of what you get.

Armed people are CITIZENS, dis-armed people are SERFS.

Guess which kind the flunkys and goons prefer?

Hey, it’s OK with me if you want to pack heat in a Starbuck’s or a night club… just as long as you aren’t wearing sweat pants. (It is an urban legend that Plaxico Burriss was sent up for carrying a pistol when he accidentally shot himself–his real offense was wearing sweat pants to a night club)

The whole “gun debate” strikes me as a battle of fantasies. It starts with the root fantasy, that we live in a terribly dangerous world in which Bad Guys are going to jump out of nowhere and commit unspeakable acts upon you. Outside of a few bad neighborhoods in a few cities, this simply isn’t the case. But both sides in the debate believe this fantasy, because they need it to justify the next level of fantasy, which includes (for the anti-gun crowd) the fantasy that taking guns away from law-abiding people will keep criminals from using them, and (for the pro-gun crowd) the fantasy that if you’re carrying, you’ll be able to act heroically to stop the Bad Guy (something Marble bleeep has already pretty thoroughly debunked).

But, so what? It gives us something to argue about, something to distract us from real issues like the Wall Street banksters emptying our wallets…

Fools. You don’t even realize the numbers of people who [legally] carry concealed weapons around you everywhere every day.

Worry about the illegals - it’s nore constructive and they are FAR more dangerous.

@ Alex, I agree with you on the NRA. It is a wing of the Republican party and any benefits you might gain from them are incidental. I was a member for many years until they began telling me how to vote. I am in a rural setting and crime is quite common with home invasions and the like. Generally, law enforcement is some time off so it is up to the individual to protect himself. I would love to have a dollar for every time I’ve heard it said that a political candidate will take your guns away so I’m voting for the other guy. I am for control of certain firearms and ammunition.

Yet another reason why I prefer a nice mug of hot chocolate…

Around here, home invasions and car-jackings have become so common place that it is in the news on a daily basis. Police response times are clearly not what the need to nor used to be, After retiring from law enforcement, I believe I have enough common sense and ability to know when and where I ought to defend myself and/or my family. Should the need arise, I have no qualms about aiming for center mass and taking some scumbag out…fact of the matter is, they will only have to listen to one side of the story…mine. For all you bleeding hearts, I hope your relatives like attending funerals. Mine don’t, and I’m going to do everything in my power to see that it doesn’t happen at the hands of another. So, that bulge under my jacket you see is probably my .45 automatic (why? because they don’t make a .46) so get over it…

Um, “Parethed … just where is “[a]round here” exactly? I suspect the hellhole you describe is Fantasyland – and not the one at DisneyWorld.

Guys like you just never realize what jokes you make yourselves to be when you talk (or write) tough like your post.

SuperGriz said, about 11 hours ago

A visit to Starbucks is so dang dangerous. The coffee alone could kill ya…

not to mention the prices!!!!!!!!

Actually crisnp, I never got the idea that the cartoon was anti-gun. I consider it anti-gun while on caffeine. A pretty reasonable concept when I consider how whacked out most people get on too much caffeine.

I’m not anti-gun, but I am anti-stupid with a gun. I lost two classmates growing up to gun accidents. Shot guns not locked up and loaded. So yes, I think the ability to think, well beyond brain stem functions, should be required before you are allowed to carry.

In fact, I think psychological evaluations should be required before you are allowed to own a gun.

I just wanted to say that pschearer and MARBLE bleeep hit the nail on the head - very well thought out comments.

I think Marble bleeep (?) describes a likely real-world situation very well. The entire notion of people running around with (unloaded) weapons (with ammo in their pockets?) is so bizarre, its surreal. I was aghast recently when Congress passed some legislation that included the right to carry LOADED weapons in US National Parks. I mean WTF….who needs to carry a weapon, much less a LOADED weapon in a park…other than rangers/sheriffs/police? On the other hand, anecdotally , Texas, it’s said, realized a substantial reduction in armed crimes when it became legal to carry an open, loaded weapon.

Funny. Dogs are also legal in almost all states, but that doesn’t mean they’re welcome in restaurants.

Of course, some people just flat out enjoy intimidating others, and openly carrying weapons is one way to do that.

First time I see a gun in Starbucks, I’m buying coffee somewhere else on a permanent basis. Either there’s a gun nut loose in the store who might snap at any moment, or else the store is so dangerous that I should be armed, also.

Alabama_Al-

I’d rather be a live joke then a dead naive fool any day.

Too me gun control means hitting your target.

I have read statistics that say a gun bought for protection is more likely to kill a member of the family or friend than a criminal. Let the paranoid gun nuts keep packing while living in a relatively safe time and place. They are thinning themselves out for us.

This gun issue is one more example of how sickeningly divided this country and this world is.

Speaking and writing (and thinking) rationally and morally and compassionately has become harder and harder. Those who try to do so are shouted down by those who take extreme uncompromising positions.

Real respectful dialogue is demonized out of hand. Compromise is considered the worst of sins.

Are we really going to shame and blame each other into oblivion?

GT stands for more than anything, real and honest dialogue.

I remember reading The Gulag Archipelago and other memoires of Soviet dissident Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in which he explains the difference between Politically Incorrect and Politically Correct prison inmates. The ‘incorrect’ were people like peaceful teachers, academics and small-business proprietors who were alleged (by secret accusers) to have once said something derogatory about Stalin or the governing party; or mechanics and workers who weren’t able to make government mandated goals and quotas (these were ‘wreckers,’ considered deliberate saboteurs of Communist Society). The ‘Friendly” or Politically Correct prisoners (who ruled over and bullied the others with the full permission of the authorities) were merely rapists, thieves and murderers who never said a word against Uncle Joe.

the problem, Parethed, is that most of the people who want to carry sidearms take the eight-hour safety class and think that’s all they need. I have no problem with people who train regularly and have passed a combat pistol course.

I mean, ask yourself; how safe would you feel on the highway if you knew that 80% of the drivers haven’t been behind the wheel since they got their license?

“So keep up the good work down South where you can pick up a gun in Florida, point it right and get a permit. ”

That’s one up on Utah where you don’t have to have ever handled gun to get a permit.

Reminds me of the time my husband asked for directions in the states to his hotel. The guy he asked was so nervous he pulled a shotgun up against his head. Luckily he didn’t shoot my husband but needless to say we don’t vacation in your country anymore. Guns in public are not necessary. I agree with pistols for protection at home and rifles for hunting. There really is no need for it on the streets. Too many people shoot and talk afterwords.

BigHug, I don’t know where in the states you were, but I’d like to invite you back. Most people here really don’t pull guns on each other or even wear guns in public. What happened to your husband should never happen and is a rarity. Y’all come on back and say ‘howdy’.

He was by himself on that trip. It was a business trip. If I was with him I don’t know what use I’d be. I would have been a raving lunatic! Thanks for the invite! :)

Thanks Marble and pschearer – and just like I don’t want to be around while you poison yourself with drugs, I don’t want to be around when that gun goes off accidently or otherwise – in your hand, on the floor or in someone else’s hand. And Alex, it sounds like 45 years ago, the NRA was a little more sane and civic minded than it is today. I am a woman and I have worked in govt jobs on the meanest streets of Detroit for many years in my career, yet I have never carried a gun nor met one. I don’t need to meet them in Starbucks and I will boycott if I do.

jack75287, just FYI stuff, not really contributing to the debate: The Boy scouts still have firearms training (with emphasis on safety) and a merit badge for it. Often civic organizations like the American Legion sponsor junior shooting and rifle safety programs as well. Almost always, the instructor training and certification, as well as the print materials come from the NRA. The NRA continues to teach not to point a gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot. Also they have a program featuring a character called Eddie Eagle whose core message is “Kids, if you find a gun, don’t touch it - go tell an adult!” So yes, the NRA still does “good stuff”

But the only press the NRA gets is for its incessant railing against the gun control folks.

rottmom: My earlier post was not to say that the comic is anti-gun, but that it’s depicting Starbucks position all wrong. Starbucks is just trying to be neutral. I’m sure Starbucks was chosen as the boycott target by the anti-gun folks exactly because they thought most of the patrons were left-leaning latte drinkers that Starbucks would cave in for – hence an easy win for them. I’m surprised it hasn’t already worked out that way. I guess Starbucks sees more risk in having their managers confront armed people to ask them to leave than the risk posed by someone drinking a cappuccino while having a pistol holstered at their hip.

Edit - Sorry Radish, I didn’t see your post. That article says basically the same thing.

Cars are more regulated than guns. Maybe we could do an end run around the NRA by not regulating guns, and regulating ammo instead. Show me the 2nd amendment right to ammo. What’s a gun without a bullet? A hammer? A fishing pole?

“Gimme back, Gimme back…”

Thank God all mighty, no mo Tudpucker.

I don’t get what the fuss is about. I’m pretty bleeep liberal, but my husband works for Starbucks. I wouldn’t want him confronting someone with a gun about them having a gun whether or not it’s legal. If it’s illegal, I’d prefer he contact the police.