Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for December 16, 2012

To the Victors. . .

it’s Time for REVENGE!

What part of “If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns” do you not understand?

Only the political/lobby wing which unfortunately, has taken over the NRA and overshadowed the many good things it has done since its inception. The problem is that no politician has the balls to stand up to their bullying. Congress is scared to death of the Koch Brothers and that dweeb Grover Norquist, so don’t expect any bucking up to the gun lobby.

Long live Elizabeth Warren’s career!!!!

I have Federal permits both to carry and to sell firearms, as well as state permits to carry concealed weapons. Guess what ? I am a huge proponent of stricter gun laws and more stringent regulations regarding the purchase of firearms, thorough background checks, a waiting period of at least fourteen days, and closing the loopholes on swap meets, gun shows etc.I also believe that every purchaser of a firearm should have proper, supervised training and certification prior to purchase.These are not in the least unreasonable nor draconian regulations. While it might not stop some deranged person like the kid in Conn., it does provide a modicum of tempering.Also, if the media stopped giving these wack-jobs their brief moment in the national spotlight, it would go a long way to diminish these attention seekers,

Trudeau’s in love with Elizabeth Warren.

So am I.

People with guns kill people.

“Aussies [have no] constitutional “right” to bear arms” …."

Here the NRA wants a constitutional “right” to arm bears in the woods.

“People with guns kill people.”

And guns kill people when people squeeze triggers.

The NRA lied and 20 little kids died.

Alas,the cliche’ based lifestyle.

I. Just. Do. Not. Goddamn. Care. At long last, I’ve finally had it. I don’t goddamn care about the whackos’ interpretations of the 2nd Amendment. I’m fed up with BS about “defending against tyranny.” I’m not remotely interested in hearing from those who think they need protection against the dark-skinned burglars. I have no interest in whether gun owners think their rights are being trampled. If you are not in favor of serious, immediate gun control, on a national level, then you are in favor of the continuing murder of our children. Period.

“Who.Gives.A.Goddam.About.You,Jerkwad? "

No comment.

“The adults in [the Newtown, CT] school weren’t allowed to exercise their unalienable right to keep and bear arms, and thus had no effective means of retaliating ….”

So the public school system is prevented by government from protecting public school children from mass murderers? I would laugh at such nonsense if this horror wasn’t so serious.

“From the Irrational Number ….”

Ever tried to divide the circumference of a circle by its diameter?

“… you’re a psychopathic hoplophobe, that you’re as blankly ignorant of history as ….”

Know what a Freudian slip is?

A hoplophobe is one who fears weapons. Hoplophobia = Greek ὅπλον (hoplon) meaning “weapons” + φόβος (phobos) meaning “fear”.

20 or so shootings in public places each year is acceptable collateral for America’s love of high powered weapons. Not a problem.

The argument that gun safety legislation "might not stop some deranged person like the kid in Conn.” from killing — therefore we should not pass such legislation — is just plain silly.

Reminds me of the argument back in the 1960s against vehicle seatbelt legislation: You don’t need laws to install safety belts, you just need to tighten the nut behind the wheel. Yeah, I know I’m showing my age (72 years old).

The basic idea goes to extreme libertarianism, even anarchy — people don’t need any laws whatsoever. No public roads, no public police officers, no public fire stations or engines. No public anything. Greed is good. Don’t trust anybody over 0 = zero years of age. Sleep with a loaded Glock under your pillow and a live RPG under your bed.

“The utter helplessness of his law-abiding neighbors is the Irrational Number’s objective.”

Simple logic: No laws, no “law-abiding”. If there are no laws, then “law-abiding” is impossible.

NRA lied.20 schoolkids died.Obama cried.

Try reading the facts from the FBI. More people are saved by owning guns than innocent people are killed by them. In this country it is not possible to disarm the bad people so doing away with the 2nd Amendment will not have any effect on criminals. Check the facts on how many school children are killed in school by guns to the number that die in school sporting events. Twice my house, in a good neighborhood, was broken into while I was sleeping. A single shot, not fatal, in each case probably saved my life. My loaded firearm is on my nightstand as I sleep an on my person when I am not at home. We have enough gun laws, we need to have them enforced.

“… gun-grabbing authoritarians on the political left.”

Silly me, and I thought you advocated that lefties like me never grab a gun. I am in fact a gun owner. WITH ammo. Welcome to the club!

Hey, montessoriteacher! Where are you now that we need you?

“The Irrational Number would sooner rip out his own pancreas ….”

One thing I wouldn’t do to you — rip out your eyeballs and SHOW ’em to you.

1934! They need to be improved. For example, gun manufacturers sell exempt guns that can be CONVERTED to the fully automatic assault mode.

Also, in a sane world the TEACHERS and ADULT STAFF would have been ARMED and able to PROTECT the children in their charge.

(Not to mention the salutory effect this would have on classroom discipline.)

Using terms like “jerkwad” and“sphincter-boy” are wholly inappropriate to use to reference your fellow commenters; you will earn flagging, at least from me, every time you use such. This is a family website. Besides, do you really think that your language will make your political position more correct by your lack of civility? Not at all.

Never waste a good crisis.

Senator Warren cannot enact change alone and her job will be even harder if John Kerry takes the Secretary of State position and Scott Brown weasels his way back into a senate seat. Please don’t make the same mistake twice Massachusetts.

GT loves fake Cherokees — he can’t stand real ones

" It’s long past time for someone to stand up to those [Wall Street greedheads]."

I think even some Democratic Representatives and Senators fear Elizabeth Warren. I wish she could / would run for President. One problem, among many, is that she’s 63.5 years old. If Hillary Clinton, age 65, is elected President and serves two terms, and Elizabeth has to wait her turn, then she will be 75.5 years old when starts serving. (I’m assuming that Obama serves 4 more years and that Hillary serves 8; meaning you have to add 12 years to Elizabeth’s current age).

I believe that Ronald Reagan was only 69 when he began serving his first term.

Sigh.

1928 worst school killing to date was in Bath, MI using explosives. Lets focus on the cause not the weapon. The problem is our lack of medical help for medical illness

Go, Elizabeth!!!!!

And that’s why I voted for her.

hope for all the best for senator warren. hope she breaks up the big banks

If you really believe guns are evil of themselves how can you reconcile allowing the police to have them? The police shoot far more people every year than were killed Friday – and the ‘review’ by their own ALWAYS finds them justified even if they were unarmed and shot in the back.

The word unalienable does not appear in the Constitution.

I fear that people on both sides of this pro firearms vrs. anti firearms discussion are missing the point I made earlier. Effective, rational, methods of ensuring that firearm purchasers are competent and vetted prior to purchase is that discussion that we should be having – not banning guns or arming everyone. Both those arguments are specious.We need to be addressing what we can do to cut down on needless, senseless gun deaths. This includes closing the loopholes in purchasing, strengthening the license/carry laws, educate and promote gun safety ( such as trigger locks ) that would go a long way in preventing accidental shooting death by children, and creating stricter penalties for crimes committed with a firearm.These are sensible proposals, advocated by many gun owners and law enforcement agencies. They are not the product of some Left Wing Liberal conspiracy but by concerned citizens, many of them, like myself who own and carry firearms and are not paranoid that the Government is going take them away.

Asking teachers to start packing will not solve the issue of gun violence in schools. If they want increased security, unfortunately, some steps will have to be taken in order to make this happen and many of those steps will be inconvenient and costly. Increased security guards may be needed as well as metal detectors. Sad, but true. And that is just for starters. Aside from that, yes, gun advocates (and I have several in my own family and they do accept this) will have to allow that more regulation of guns is needed and it is needed now. If it doesn’t solve the problem overnight, that doesn’t mean it is not a step in the right direction. All social change is hard and it often takes a rather long time. We can meet this challenge. We have to meet this challenge. There have also been shootings in hospitals in this country. Will we ask our medical professionals to start packing? No, I don’t think that would work out very well either… Just because social change is long and difficult is no excuse to not continue to make those changes. People are acting like it is a big deal just to bring back the assault weapons ban! For heaven’s sake, it only expired in 2004. No individual needs an assault weapon, other than a soldier in war. It wasn’t all that long ago when we didn’t have regulations for disabled people in this country. All of that has changed. It was inconvenient and difficult to make that happen for some people. It was a very necessary life-saving change for others. The civil rights movement didn’t change everything overnight either. We fought long and hard to make those changes and everything is not perfect even today, but changes have come about since the turbulent 1960’s.

In terms of the name-calling new troll amongst us, my advice is to flag and move on. Whether or not flagging will do any good or not is not the issue. If someone is not capable of civil debate, why bother?

Thank you and good luck Elizabeth Warren!

What about a national registry?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Mixed feelings. Opposed it years ago on general principles but with the advent of CODUS and DNA registry, if properly devised , it could help in identification of firearms used in a crime. What I am recommending would be a national ballistics registry that could track the firearm from manufacture to purchase.

GO ELIZABETH!!!!!!!Occupy the Banking Committee

“In the scenario you all are talking about, the guns involved were legally owned by the mother of the lunatic, who not only was unaware that her son was a certifiable nut-case, but left him access to her weapons.”

I believe you meant to say the mother (and many others) DID know this kid had serious mental issues. As you said, at the very least, the mother had a responsibility to have her weapons secured.

I will not resort to personal attacks that you clearly enjoy. No, I did not attend a prep-school and most of the private school educated people I knew were well indoctrinated in religious dogma but couldn’t tell you what an isosceles triangle is.The difference between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution is the same as the difference between a petition for divorce and marriage vows. One always talks about the intent of the Founding Fathers. One should take seriously what was omitted as well as what was included. I respect a person who argues against Roe v Wade because there is nothing in the Constitution indicates any right to an abortion more than one who talks about the sanctity of life. You said:That’s what’s meant by the word “unalienable,” and why the pre-existing common law protection of the right to keep and bear arms was formally codified in the Second Amendment. Yet, owning arms was not listed as an unalienable right. And the Second Amendment is the only amendment in the Bill of Rights that has a purpose stated for it:-

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State…”-

I support the right of people to protect their lives, businesses, and property. I am not calling for a ban on gun ownership but how about making sure that certain people do not have access to them?To me, the mother of the shooter in this tragedy is greatly to blame. She knew she had a psychologically disturbed son yet she had a house full of guns to which he obviously had easy access. None of those guns were able to save her.If in the future you want to engage in a healthy discussion, argument, or debate, I will be more than happy to participate. If you have nothing better than personal attacks, then I will not waste my time.

Yesterday, I heard someone make a comment on MSNBC that his mother did, in fact, know that he did have serious mental issues – that she said to his baby-sitter “Whatever you do, don’t take your eyes off him; if you go to the bathroom, take him in with you.” Yes, she knew.

Guns being less available would not have stopped that shooter. Someone at the school having the means and training to stop him sooner is about all that would have helped. Although, how did he bring 4 guns into the building without being noticed?

lol! Hey Tucci, you’ve got some chunks of plausibility mixed in with the vitriol and fanaticism. It’s amusing, but you may be too spicy for the crowd here . . . why don’t you mix it up out in the editorials comics? There’s a gun-control thread on Tony Auth right now, for instance, where you can raise hell without fear of flagging . . .

Are you seriously frigging kidding me?!?!?!? You don’t want the government to take your guns away, but you want the government to form a National Health Office to test and evaluate the sanity of everyone who owns one?

I’m certain that the vast majority of shooters, gun freaks paranoid for their safety… the mentally ill and the prison population were sexually abused as children. If we could break that chain (ala Sandusky) society would be much safer.

Its nice to see how well affirmative action works. Here we have blonde, blue eyed Pocahontas II, the first genuwine fake Native American in the Senate with lots of good ideas on how to make things more better. Maybe we can start printing money out of thin air and buy our own debt so we can distribute more free stuff. Yeehaw

GOOD!

‘it’s Time for REVENGE!’How about, “It’s time for good governance!”?Know the difference?.As for how the murderer got 4 guns into the school without being noticed, he SHOT his way through a window. Next question?

News reports also stated that the gunman forced his way into the school, though there were multiple locked doors on the outside.

I’ve been reading this diatribe for MANY years. There was a time when it belonged in the comic strips. No longer! Editorial Opinion page for you, Doonesbury. If a conservative said the sky was blue, you’d say, “no it’s not” and give me a global warming reason for why THAT blue is NOT really BLUE! Oh!… BTW I’m a liberal.

OK, the gunman shot his way through. Well, that explains it. Perhaps the tragic situation could have not been prevented, but at least fewer people would have been lost if the security had been tighter.

Gary Morrow— you are a liberal? What are you liberal about? In this strip, GT was merely showing Joanie as someone who is excited about working for Elizabeth Warren and how she is going to fight for the middle class and against the greedy. Yes, he has an opinion. So do many others in other comic strips. More often that not, GT does not express a political opinion, though he does from time to time, as do others who are comic strip writers.

One hundred seventeen comments so far today. This is a subject that should be aired. I for one don’t own a weapon. I did a tour in Vietnam and I was high shooter in my platoon in boot camp. I’ve seen the reality of using firearms. When the news focuses on the home invasions and such, I sometimes think I may need one. The truth is, where I live, there is no need. In my neighborhood caucasion and hispanic are pretty much even with afro-americans mixed in. I do not feel uneasy here at all. The true measure of a system to greatly reduce gun violence would be to have school counsellorsnot only observe students but to interview parents, at least annually. This would facilitate referrals for better treatment if needed. As far as the laws go, we don’t need more but to clarify and improve the ones in place. >>Dr. Tucci, if you really are, you need to dial back the invective. You do not respect anyone else. you have even insulted those who might agree with you. That makes you the worst of trolls. Good Day to you.

I know two people with so many guns that they need a safe, and both are unstable enough that I no longer see them. They are just plain disturbing to be around. One is a retired teacher, and the biggest, most blatant racist I ever met. He also has two or three cannons (civil war re-enactor, you can guess which side).The other has a bipolar disorder, not so much manic-depressive as manic-supermanic). He had three gun safes at different locations. He nearly shot off his own thumb once while moving guns wrapped in a blanket. We went out to his friend’s place in the country once. There was some target shooting, and the rear window of his mom’s car (which we were driving that day) was blown out by his friend’s wife. There were so many bizarre incidents with him that I wrote about forty pages of journal recording them over a three-year period.How many guns can you have before it qualifies as an addiction instead of a hobby?I’ve had a bolt-action rifle for 50 years and two pistols for about 35 years, and I’ve never wanted to kill more than one or two people at a time, and even then never got the guns out of the closet. I haven’t shot them in 20 years, except for dispatching a few raccoons. But I have fresh ammo, and try to defend the whole constitution, not just my favorite parts.Why can’t guns be licensed like cars? With training and insurance and periodic re-evaluations required?In the last week, how many people were killed separately by guns in the USA? I’m guessing more than 26.

Firearms ownership is what keeps us from governmental tyranny. Any police organization that allows its uniformed officers to carry weapons that are not available to the general public, is repressive(Ca, this is YOU). SWAT teams and the like are special, they train and only use those weapons in special situations.Assault weapons by definition are automatic weapons and they are already controlled. Changing the definition of a hunting rifle to “assault weapon” does NOT make it one.The villianization of ammo is also wrong. Whatever is used(according to the media) is “cop killer” or “dum-dum” rounds. Educate everyone and we will have a free society.

I don’t care for guns and I am a Democrat. However, I know many Democrats who are gun owners. Most Democrats do seem to favor more regulation on the use of guns, even if they are gun owners. I think this is fair. As I said before, the assault weapons ban was allowed to expire in 2004. This is not so long ago. I see where Louie Gohmert has come out for the use of guns by school personnel as an answer to the recent shooting. Another member of Congress, Carolyn McCarthy, whose husband and son were victims of shootings, has come out against more use of guns as a solution. She has not stated that she wishes to take all the guns away. She has stated that more regulation is needed. Carolyn McCarthy is a voice in the wilderness of gun control, much like Elizabeth Warren as an advocate for consumer protection. I appreciate them both.

Assault weapons are not the same as hunting rifles. Assault weapons are the type which are used by soldiers in a time of war, not for shooting a deer. Personally, I wouldn’t go near either of them, but I know there is a difference.

LeoAutodidact said, about 5 hours ago

Also, in a sane world the TEACHERS and ADULT STAFF would have been ARMED and able to PROTECT the children in their charge.(Not to mention the salutory effect this would have on classroom discipline.)Do you or any contributor to this conversation actually believe that a classroom would function better if an armed guard were presentt to discipline the children, or was that a flight of invective?/And when a writer uses insult and unsubstanttiated rejection of an argument rather than fact and logic , does he expect his own point of view to be regarded as more acceptable or worthy of consideration? In some of the rants, the language of hate makes it impossible to discern what the writer’s point is. Civility is essential, even when one is insulted; it’s the most effective argument and the most efficient restorative of enlightening discussion.

In our neck of the woods it is called the War of Southern Treason. The Morrill Tariff wouldn’t have been passed if the Southern states had not seceded; The Confederate States of America came into being on February 4, 1861, the Morrill Tariff came into law on March 2, 1861. The law wouldn’t have passed if Southern Senators had not resigned when their states seceded and turned the control of the Senate over to the Republican. As for it being spousal abuse, how could there be abuse when only one spouse is in the house?As for the War of Southern Treason being murder, remember who fired on Fort Sumpter. I see it as a clear case of standing your ground.Stephen Halbrook is a one trick pony. In his mind, the Bill of Rights consists of the Second Amendment and all the other amendments are supporting clauses.Halbrook reminds of the Chris Rock routine about Robitussin:“Got cancer, take some Robitussin.”

Halbrook sees gun ownership as the answer to every problem.“Your boss didn’t give you the promotion you wanted- get a gun.”“Your car not starting up- get a gun.”

“Your kid acting up- get a gun. No better yet, give the kid a gun.”His ambition to turn the US into a giant Switzerland should start with not getting the US involved with international conflicts.*Since facts are of no importance to you, there is no further reason for any interaction.

Could a new ‘New Deal’ be in the works?? Just like in the 30s, it could rebuild crumbling infrastructure through a WorksProgramAdm…maybe even have a modern rail system across the nation before this century is out! I won’t live to see it…

The day that it is as easy to kill someone with a knife, bow and arrow or baseball bat as it is to pull a trigger on a gun, is the day that anyone will have to worry about those items being regulated. It is a HELL of a lot harder to kill with those items than it is to pull a trigger. Get real. No one said it can’t be done, that is not the issue. After all, why would anyone bother with a gun if it was just as easy to kill with a baseball bat, bow and arrow, etc.?

There are plenty of DINOs. (Democrat In Name Only)

Our rights are conferred by mutual consent of “We the people”. The Founding Fathers would have recognized you for the selfish, whining wretch that you are.The 2nd Amendment & the entire Constitution, are subject to the needs and norms of later generations. Otherwise, African Americans would still only count as 3/5ths of a person.

Reports that Westboro Baptist Lunatics picketing—Yes, that sounds just like the Westboro Baptist Lunatics…

Awesome!

It’s not about the guns. It’s about the health care system in general, and in this case the mental health care system. It’s about the way we ‘manage’ kids, medicating them instead of socializing them, and denying mental health care even to those who need it. It is impossible by law in most places to confine even the most unstable patients, and we have seen more than one case where this has led to tragedy.

What meds was this kid on? Were they appropriate, or just convenient? Had he stopped taking some kind of medication recently?

Those are questions nobody is asking, but there is a strong liklihood they are relevant. It’s unlikely we’ll hear anything about them, either, because it might affect BigPharma’s bottom line.

And you don’t know how to turn a semi-automatic into a full automatic? Shame on you. By theway, you kill many more people on semi then on full.

I can’t imagine spending my entirie Sunday posting,updatting and reposting.For what?

You people are so funny….

When guns are pickled, only pickles will have guns.

Last thought for those claiming their Second Amendment rights are all that stands between you & government oppression….Do you really believe your pipsqueek personal arsenal is enough to stop a real army? You’ve been watching too much “Red Dawn.” The history of armed insurrection in the U.S. is neither glorious nor successful.If you want to fight the Federal Government, you’re better off putting your money in lawyers or grass roots opposition.

No, actually the middle class are not as greedy. Studies show a link between wealth and tendency to break ethical rules for personal benefit.

The Morrill Tariff of 1861 . . . the “War of Northern Aggression” . . . . “predatory intent of the Yankees”??Wait, I know you! You’re Jefferson Davis!

I don’t pretend to know all the answers in terms of making sense of the type of tragedy which took place at the elementary school in Connecticut. I only know that keeping things as they are is not going to work and I don’t think it will be helpful to have more people carrying guns in the streets and to schools and elsewhere. If they are trained security guards that is one thing, if they are teachers, then that is what they need to do, teach. Let teachers be teachers. They already take on many other roles at times, I don’t think they should be law enforcement officers as well.

“And, the middle class are not greedy?”

You miss montessoriteacher’s point.

228 comments so far today! A record for Doonesbury? For GoComix?

Once again, the prez is speaking as consoler in chief…

Of course, I don’t blame the prez for this tragedy, and would not have blamed a Republican for it either. Once again, it is so sad to see and hear about such a tragedy. We can’t continue in this way.

No record yet, it has to get up towards 300. For Dunesbury and GoComics. Somebody please bait that less than generous Dr. Tucci again. That’ll get it up there.

The prez just said he would use the power of his office to prevent such a tragedy from happening again. Not sure what that means, but I know he won’t take anyone’s guns away…

Apparently, Adam Lanza had Asperger’s syndrome, from what I am now hearing. Between this syndrome and his mother having loads of firearms around, this was a powder keg situation. Adam’s mother was divorced and apparently the child’s father was not around to help care for Adam which was a 24/7 job. His mother had spoken just last week about Adam beginning to burn himself with a lighter. Obviously, he needed help beyond what his mother was able to provide. I know that some had spoken about mental illness earlier, but that can mean so many things. Children and teens who have this syndrome are often at risk to themselves and others and this syndrome is frightfully common. Another situation where guns will not resolve anything.

Jersey, I have a brother like that too. Aside from being more than a little paranoid, is he just a bit crazy?Here is the thing. The gun lobby is so strong, that we can’t even get the previous assault weapons ban extended, much less re-introduced as a bill in Congress. Does your brother really think that we will ever be able to disarm all the citizens?It will never happen. Those of us with the slightest common sense, would just like to see some common sense laws passed so that weapons with huge clips weren’t so easy to get.

Sir, forgive me if I haven’t a clue what in the hell you are talking about. If you are replying to one of my comments, then be specific in your reply. If you are simply indulging in mental masturbation, to feed an insecure ego, than so be it !I don’t ever recall saying we had a shortage of anything in this country – unless it is people who engage their brain before their mouth !

TO ALL OF TODAY’S DOONESBURY COMMENTATORS:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You have all contributed to a record breaking day and we still are going.What does that mean ? I pray it means that no matter how vitriolic, we have begun the dialogue and argument on SENSIBLE firearm reform – please notice I did Not say gun control. I advocate realistic checks and balances, as I iterated over 20 hours ago.I want to thank you all for participating in this forum – no matter your point of view – because your are participating in a much needed debate.We don’t need repetitions of Friday’s massacre to make us aware that there is much to be done on several fronts, firearm reform, identifying, intervention and treatment of mental illness, school safety, are just some of them.At least we are talking !

Apparently my post didn’t post for some reason — so I’ll try again. Re the comic: I don’t think EW has much to do with gun control, but I’d say it’s about time to all that’s proposed by Joanie. Re the terrorist attack on Friday: It amazes me that we can go up against the entire world for attacking us on 9/11 when we lost 3,000 lives, but we continue to allow upwards of 10,000 folks to die every year at the hands of homegrown terrorists like this kid. We are failing to protect our youngest children from this horror, and the stores are now sold out of the same assault weapon this terrorist used on Friday because folks fear they might (God forbid) be banned. Absolute shame on us all for continuing to allow this.

Wow. 250 comments before midnight PT, we’ve got a live one!If it’s not firearms, it’ll be knives, pipes, 2×4s, etc. I’m with Linguist AND NightGaunt, the recent massacres are a mental-health issue, exacerbated by extreme stress for twenty-somethings with no jobs, no prospects. Marksmanship and safety training covers only part of the problem; ‘accidents’, forgetting that ANY firearm is loaded, at ANY time until you have fully inspected it and cleared it.Remember what became of the ancient civilization that outlawed the bow and arrow; never heard of them? Maybe that’s why!OH; Elizabeth, you GO, GIRL!

In other words total anarchy.